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  1. #131
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Right, but what standards for behavior would people have used before any form of government existed? Without any legal repercussions for any behaviors, it seems like the only motivating value for most people would be self-preservation and promotion of self-interest.
    No. We're instinctively social creatures.

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    As usual Amargith is the only NFP doing a decent job of explaining any of this.

    I got a few ideas for how to approach NFPs a little better from her in this thread, so thanks Amargith.

    I read one line of neptune's post, realized it was going to be useless histrionic 4w3 garbage, and skipped to the next Amargith post. No surprise there.
    You mean she's the only NFP you can relate to. I think we feel the same way about the bulk of your posts (not to mention OMTs posts, which I cannot read, because I have put them on ignore) so it's less about Neptune's posts being "useless garbage" and more about our lack of willingness to work with people who are acting like total jerks. I think Amargith, for some reason - I can't figure out if she's a masochist or what - wants to make peace with you guys, even if you're metaphorically punching her in the face. If that's what it requires to get along with certain ENTPs, no thnx.

  3. #133
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.awesome View Post
    So in the past months the past two women ive been attracted to have 2 things in common..
    1. They were both xNFP, [one tested more E, one more I]
    2. I cant help but get the vibe they only want to talk about themselves.

    Honest to god, one of them was a ginormous flirt, and was open about it, it was very obvious the relationship from her perspective was 90% eye candy and 10% communication. as all she wanted to seem to do when around me was talk about other boys she hangs out with and takes pictures of me.
    The other, relationship is a healthy 10% attraction and 90% communication. but the communication is always about her.
    Amar appropriately asked you the right question...

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Why are you attracted to them?
    Seriously, NEITHER of these relationships sound/seem remotely healthy.

    And, as we all should, too, you need to take responsibilty for your part in your willingness to participate in these relationships.

    What do these women/girls you found yourself attracted to, and their apparent/glaring flaws say about YOU.

    Honestly, please ask yourself that.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Are they enneagram 4's? 4's (or any heart triad member really) tend to love to talk about themselves when they trust someone in my experience.
    PEOPLE LOVE TO TALK ABOUT THEMSELVES!!!



    It's human nature.

    And, even moreso, when people feel like they can trust their audience, they feel more at ease and hence more willing to disclose personal shit about themselves.

    It honestly boggles my fucking mind, the idea that someone cannot comprehend this FACT.

    What's utterly ironic about this thread is that, if anything, other people tend to open up to us, (NFPs), due to our nonjudgmental and open natures.

    Either I am an exception to the rule, or your perception of NFPs and 4s is waaaaaay off.

    ENFPs take their relationships very seriously, but also approach them with a childlike enthusiasm and energy. They seek and demand authenticity and depth in their personal relationships, and will put forth a lot of effort into making things work out. They are warm, considerate, affirming, nurturing, and highly invested in the health of the relationship. They have excellent interpersonal skills, and are able to inspire and motivate others to be the best that they can be
    I am definitely an ENFP and a 4w5, prototypically so, if anything.

    We *genuinely* care about people, and especially our loved ones.

    Part of this genuine care and concern we have for others is manifested in our desire and ability to ACTUALLY LISTEN to people in hopes to truly understand them better.

    Ugh.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

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  4. #134
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Well, there is obstinacy to the point of the attacker's boredom, but that just gives them an opportunity to regroup and return another day with better weapons.
    I'm fairly sure that your imagination is capable of coming up with better defenses than obstinacy or attack. For someone professing a deep understanding of Fe, I am not seeing evidence of said understanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    No. We're instinctively social creatures.
    And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

    You're trying to argue that Fe is the law. Fe is only a small piece of the much larger set of possible social interactions. Heck, it's at best a hypothetical psychological function that seems to help describe some people. There are plenty of social interactions that do not invoke Fe. Granted, handling the subtleties of such interactions is often (but not always) a strength of those with a preference for Fe.

    Anything deserving the name appellation "the law" was created by many humans of many opinions with many different motivations and goals. Fe doesn't even deserve the name "social contract." It's a psychological function, not the grand unified theory of human interaction.

  5. #135
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    You mean she's the only NFP you can relate to. I think we feel the same way about the bulk of your posts (not to mention OMTs posts, which I cannot read, because I have put them on ignore) so it's less about Neptune's posts being "useless garbage" and more about our lack of willingness to work with people who are acting like total jerks. I think Amargith, for some reason - I can't figure out if she's a masochist or what - wants to make peace with you guys, even if you're metaphorically punching her in the face. If that's what it requires to get along with certain ENTPs, no thnx.
    Neptune's post reduced to, "You'll never understand Fi so just give up on your friendship", which sounds like useless garbage to me.

    Amargith gave some genuine advice on ways I could try talking to him that might ameliorate some of the tension during disagreements. You and Neptune generally just whine about how much you hate ENTPs, which is entirely useless to me.

    In fact, type 9 NFPs usually seem genuinely interested in helping different sides understand each other. Amargith, Peacebaby, Udog, etc. I find them quite helpful.

    It's usually just the 4s that spend their whole post on some histrionic bitch-fest. Yes, that shit is useless.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #136
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...listeners.html

    In defense of other ENFPs like me.

    Many of us are innately good listeners.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  7. #137
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    I know you guys are talking about some functional analysis stuff, now.

    But, I still think my posts pertain to the OP's topic.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Neptune's post reduced to, "You'll never understand Fi so just give up on your friendship", which sounds like useless garbage to me.

    Amargith gave some genuine advice on ways I could try talking to him that might ameliorate some of the tension during disagreements. You and Neptune generally just whine about how much you hate ENTPs, which is entirely useless to me.
    Yes, she even apologized to OMT in another thread where he was behaving like a total buttwipe, and INTJs as well as NFPs shared this opinion - but Amar, with her affinity for peacemaking, felt it was necessary to allow him to get his way. I don't roll that way. Maybe she's a 9.

    In fact, type 9 NFPs usually seem genuinely interested in helping different sides understand each other. Amargith, Peacebaby, Udog, etc. I find them quite helpful.
    And you have to understand that some other people view that as being masochistic and enabling shitty behavior.

    It's usually just the 4s that spend their whole post on some histrionic bitch-fest. Yes, that shit is useless.
    We feel the same way about you guys. I think we're just not meant to get along, because your posts look just as meaningless and blah blah blah to us.

    <DELETED - Needless tension in this language, let there be peace again, thank you. -Halla>

  9. #139
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Alright people, let's get one thing straight here.

    a) I aint the topic of convo here
    b) I aint a 9, I'm a 4 and a damned intense one at that :steam:
    c) I have a vested interest in understanding ENTPs so this is all selfish
    d) I can understand boht Neptune and Marm in this, and I am trying to understand OMT and Sims while shielding myself from accidental blows by OMT and Sim because they more than once expressed that they appreciate my insights (which then was greatly appreciated by me and allowed me to shield myself properly when we talk), therefore showing me that they do respect what I have to say, so I can actually learn something here. I'm trying to understand, and gain understanding about all people out there, including the ones that are hard to grasp for me, such as ENTPs. And I've found that blowing up on them emotionally, just leaves me more scarred and gains me little, so I'm trying this this way.
    e) I'm not enabling anything, I think OMT can testify to me not taking any crap from him in this thread

    Now, I can go back and try and translate Neptunes intentions to the ENTPs, if that will help put this to an end, or we can just assume that she meant well, but maybe didn't have all the info on the situation, which then lead Sim to conclude that her response was maybe not that applicable to his situation.

    Either way, plz retract your claws guys
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  10. #140
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Yes, she even apologized to OMT in another thread where he was behaving like a total buttwipe, and INTJs as well as NFPs shared this opinion - but Amar, with her affinity for peacemaking, felt it was necessary to allow him to get his way. I don't roll that way. Maybe she's a 9.
    She does seem like a 9.

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    And you have to understand that some other people view that as being masochistic and enabling shitty behavior.
    Mediating between disagreeing parties and helping people understand each other's perspectives better is somehow bad? What? Admitting that each perspective has some validity instead of outright dismissing the ENTP one is "enabling shitty behavior"?

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    We feel the same way about you guys. I think we're just not meant to get along, because your posts look just as meaningless and blah blah blah to us.
    Amargith makes a consistent effort to read our posts, try to determine where the miscommunication is happening and explain what we don't understand in more palatable terms that make more sense from our perspectives.

    At least I admit there are things about Fi that I don't understand. You seem dogmatically convinced that Ti is just factually wrong, end of story.

    I would have thought you'd be perceptive enough to recognize the lack of objective correctness in these disagreements of perspective. You seem to interpret anything critical of your type tendencies as "shitty behavior", and unfortunately lack Amargith's desire/ability to try to translate between different perspectives in order to facilitate better communication.

    But no, you're not even interested in trying to do that. And you wonder why I think your posts are useless compared to Amargith's.

    Isn't the whole point of typology to facilitate better communication via learning about perspectives that don't naturally make sense to you? That doesn't really work if you just label all of those opposing perspectives "shitty behavior" and condemn the people who are actually trying to improve relationships.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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