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  1. #91
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    If caring about the feelings of others is tyrannical, well, call me an enlightened despot.
    You're not, in this situation though. You're caring about the 'group norm'. You should be focusing on the relationship between you and the person at hand, not defending a group that isn't even there. Negotiate the bond between the two of you, instead of insisting they stick to the 'generic social contract'. You're hurting their feelings..ignoring their needs, because it just happens not to correspond with the norm.

    At that point, it's not your job to teach them on the social norm, it's your job to understand their pov, and explain yours so you can negotiate a win-win situation between the two of you, which will make you both happy. Otherwise, you are oppressing them, and using the 'because the majority says it's gotto be this way!' thing just to get your way. You talk about caring for the feelings of others..what others? It's just you and him in that situation and you sure as hell aint caring about his feelings. Only yours left. How's that not selfish?
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    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  2. #92
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    You're not, in this situation though. You're caring about the 'group norm'. You should be focusing on the relationship between you and the person at hand, not defending a group that isn't even there. Negotiate the bond between the two of you, instead of insisting they stick to the 'generic social contract'. You're hurting their feelings..ignoring their needs, because it just happens not to correspond with the norm.

    At that point, it's not your job to teach them on the social norm, it's your job to understand their pov, and explain yours so you can negotiate a win-win situation between the two of you, which will make you both happy. Otherwise, you are oppressing them, and using the 'because the majority says it's gotto be this way!' thing just to get your way. You talk about caring for the feelings of others..what others? It's just you and him in that situation and you sure as hell aint caring about his feelings. Only yours left. How's that not selfish?
    He doesn't care about mine in the first place. Why should I give him what he's unwilling to grant to me?

  3. #93
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    He doesn't care about mine in the first place. Why should I give him what he's unwilling to grant to me?
    At least he's trying to negotiate! You just assume that those rules are already in place and get pissed when he's clueless about breaking them.

    Why on earth would you instantly assume he doesn't care about yours? You didn't even bother to let him know your wishes in the first place.

    Not to mention that your response is really passive-aggressive. The way you're going about it, none of you get what you want. Lose-lose situation..how crappy is that.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  4. #94
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    At least he's trying to negotiate! You just assume that those rules are already in place and get pissed when he's clueless about breaking them.

    Why on earth would you instantly assume he doesn't care about yours? You didn't even bother to let him know your wishes in the first place.
    No he's not. He's trying to save face, as far as I'm concerned.

    If he cared about my feelings, he'd realize that he had harmed them, and then recompensed me in some way. An apology would be enough.

  5. #95
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    He doesn't care about mine in the first place. Why should I give him what he's unwilling to grant to me?
    You keep saying that when we've already told you that he does care overall and he did care in the first place or he wouldn't have adjusted.

    You see "caring" and "consideration" expressed very limitedly.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    No he's not. He's trying to save face, as far as I'm concerned.
    We don't see it as a competition the way you do.

    He's not "saving face." He's not saving anything. He wants to make sure he doesn't disrespect you again, so he's "mindful next time."

    If he cared about my feelings, he'd realize that he had harmed them, and then recompensed me in some way. An apology would be enough.
    He already gave you a sincere apology.


    EDIT: Oh, and because sim [below me] is just waiting for me to give him a quick Fi shout-out hey. Also, one) I'm sure the e3s appreciate your calling them all histrionic, and two) I don't find you hypocritical at all for skipping over the good in my post because you didn't like the way I presented my ideas.

  6. #96
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    As usual Amargith is the only NFP doing a decent job of explaining any of this.

    I got a few ideas for how to approach NFPs a little better from her in this thread, so thanks Amargith.

    I read one line of neptune's post, realized it was going to be useless histrionic 4w3 garbage, and skipped to the next Amargith post. No surprise there.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    Could you elaborate on this Poki, especially the bolded? Fe=unwavering and Fi=circumstantial...
    I meant more Fe=Pre. Fi=Post. Will comment more later.
    Im out, its been fun

  8. #98
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    No he's not. He's trying to save face, as far as I'm concerned.

    If he cared about my feelings, he'd realize that he had harmed them, and then recompensed me in some way. An apology would be enough.
    Wow. And that's how the judgement thing comes into place. Interesting.


    So..you basically assume that everyone should just adhere to the social contract, and when that doesn't happen, it must be willfull stubbornness on the other side, who's bent on trying to piss you off? Then not instantly appologizing is strike 2????

    The fact that someone has a different pov, or even is just not as competent at adhering to these rules (Kinda like speaking a foreign language), and thus makes mistakes, doesn't even occur to you? Tolerance isn't your forte, is it?

    I get it now. Miscommunication doesn't exist for you..it's automatically willfull breach of contract. Must be, coz *everyone* knows the contract, and you'd only break it if you were an ass or disrespectful of the person.

    I'll keep in mind that when an ENTP is socially not following the contract with me, from now on, that he just means to disrespect me, and breaks the social contract on purpose to either provoke me or make it clear to me that he doesn't care for me. Thanks for the insight.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  9. #99
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    You also don't gain any respect, and may very well lose it, when you let someone insult you without standing up for yourself.
    You can stand up for yourself without being disrespectful. You can maintain your boundaries without punishing others for crossing them.

    I don't ever throw the first punch, but I'm committed to throwing the last one.
    That very attitude will earn you disrespect from many people.

  10. #100
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Wow. And that's how the judgement thing comes into place. Interesting.


    So..you basically assume that everyone should just adhere to the social contract, and when that doesn't happen, it must be willfull stubbornness on the other side, who's bent on trying to piss you off? Then not instantly appologizing is strike 2????

    The fact that someone has a different pov, or even is just not as competent at adhering to these rules (Kinda like speaking a foreign language), and thus makes mistakes, doesn't even occur to you? Tolerance isn't your forte, is it?

    I get it now. Miscommunication doesn't exist for you..it's automatically willfull breach of contract. Must be, coz *everyone* knows the contract, and you'd only break it if you were an ass or disrespectful of the person.

    I'll keep in mind that when an ENTP is socially not following the contract with me, from now on, that he just means to disrespect me, and breaks the social contract on purpose to either provoke me or make it clear to me that he doesn't care for me. Thanks for the insight.
    I've repeatedly stated that intent has nothing to do with it. Negligence still causes harm. It's the harm that has to be healed. Not the action that caused the harm.

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