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  1. #251
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I think there are some elements that are a bit symbiotic about us and ENTPs. I don't think it's all about enneagram.

  2. #252
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by revolve View Post
    just wondering if infjs are fascinated / drawn to certain enneagram types of entps more than other entps or if it's that infj are drawn to 7's but methinks its the Ne Ti that infjs like & enneagram type doesn't mean poop cuz if infjs were drawn to 7's then they'd be fascinated by enfps too, . . . which doesn't seem the case . . . oih . . . i hope my infj boyfriend doesn't meet any entp chicks anytime soon . . . i guess entps, regardless of their enneagram type is the draw?
    i think a combination of both combined with gender.

    i'm an e5, and i know that 7w6 is my favorite enneagram type. the enthusiasm and the sensitivity work for me. the enneagram sites describe 7w6 as more dreamy-imaginative than 7w8.

    i don't get along with 3w4 entps as well. i'd say 7w6, then 7w8, then 3w4 as a general trend. i like 7w8 so/sx because it's a little lighter and more fluid, to me, than others/it compliments me as an sx/sp well.

    infjs relate to enfps in different ways. we're fascinated by the Ti of entps, it's so expansive due to Ne, it has some shared Fe purpose, and it's much much better than ours! but both enp types can help us move forward, expand our sense of possibilities, and help us deal with the particular in a more positive, setting a goal and going for it, optimistic way. enfps also make us feel understood in a way that we have trouble understanding ourselves. they connect what we think/see to what they imagine us to feel, and that process helps us recognize a lot about our emotional state that we're mostly unaware of. they're also very good at lifting that state, partly due to the way that Fi confirms worth/value of others in a different way that we cannot immediately produce ourselves, that in their subjective reality what you feel is important to them, they care about your state, etc.

    i still don't understand the plethora of ways that being wanted and wanting line up with psychological motivations. that gets into too detailed territory and introduces a wide variety of factors that we don't really talk about yet in this discussion. it suffices to say that i wouldn't worry too much about it, because there are strengths and weaknesses of both, and both types have a very solid place in the infj imagination--a kind of ongoing, continual, renewable attraction.

  3. #253
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    infjs relate to enfps in different ways. we're fascinated by the Ti of entps, it's so expansive due to Ne, it has some shared Fe purpose, and it's much much better than ours! but both enp types can help us move forward, expand our sense of possibilities, and help us deal with the particular in a more positive, setting a goal and going for it, optimistic way. enfps also make us feel understood in a way that we have trouble understanding ourselves. they connect what we think/see to what they imagine us to feel, and that process helps us recognize a lot about our emotional state that we're mostly unaware of. they're also very good at lifting that state, partly due to the way that Fi confirms worth/value of others in a different way that we cannot immediately produce ourselves, that in their subjective reality what you feel is important to them, they care about your state, etc.

    i still don't understand the plethora of ways that being wanted and wanting line up with psychological motivations. that gets into too detailed territory and introduces a wide variety of factors that we don't really talk about yet in this discussion. it suffices to say that i wouldn't worry too much about it, because there are strengths and weaknesses of both, and both types have a very solid place in the infj imagination--a kind of ongoing, continual, renewable attraction.
    I love the INFJ friends I have in real life, but sometimes spending too much time around either of them can lead to an unbearably heavy feeling (not all the time- just sometimes). It’s immeasurably helpful to know them; to have others who humanize my obsessive-compulsive tendency to explore the meaning of things, to have people to bounce reality off of and always have it come back making sense. But we also share the same blind spots. Seeing possibilities in the external world tends to be one of them, sometimes as much as the present-moment external world [Se] can be; feeling like there aren’t any external possibilities can be really discouraging. This isn’t true of all INFJs, but it does tend to be true of the particularly introverted ones.

    It’s like a “how many INFJs does it take to change a light bulb?” kind of thing. It’s kind of ridiculous (and more than a little bit embarrassing at times), but- being on probably the too extreme end of INFJ, where INFJness gets too thick- we can have absolutely no idea where to find the light bulbs to put the theory into action. We can construct amazing lighting arrangements in our heads: but when it comes to actually acquiring the light bulbs, we can be at a loss. And while Se users can offer “you can find light bulbs right here, right now”- we often pooh pooh those light bulbs, instinctively hoping for better ones (better external possibilities to match the ideal we’ve created in our heads). Ne people add a much needed “you can get better light bulbs here! …and here! AND HERE!” to our perspective. They are much better at gleaming the specific kind of light bulbs needed for us to extravert what’s in our heads (maybe sharing Ti & Fe with us makes ENTPs especially good at it).

    I can’t quite figure out how to clearly articulate how that^ analogy translates into real life, so I hope it at least *kinda* makes sense.

    And it seems like- in turn- there’s something comforting about INFJ gravity to ENPs. I’m just going on what I gathered from the ENP I dated for several years here, but for him: having access to every single possibility in the external world can feel empty if you don’t know how to weigh it down with some internal significance. I know this was a serious blind spot for him, but he was on the particularly extraverted end of ENP. If attaching some internal meaning (by “meaning”, I’m referring to actual emotional weight- not simply the kind of ‘meaning’ a dictionary can provide- but a direct link from something in the external world directly to one’s subjective existential core) is anywhere near the challenge for other ENPs as it was for the one I dated, then I can see how INFJ influence would be especially appealing. My ENP was somewhat addicted to the way I could put him in touch with his subjective core. I could be totally off about this being the ENP blind spot, though.

    edit: I feel the need to clarify what I said in the last paragraph. After my ENP and I broke up for the final time, he complained about how it was too easy to win over the single women who crossed his path. He always felt- when it was really easy to convince people of things that occurred to him off the top of his head- that nothing felt real or authentic. And that’s how it is with other people for him, more often than not. Having someone around- to question everything that didn’t quite ring true- was comforting to him. That’s what I mean by ‘attach internal meaning’ or giving things 'emotional weight'.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  4. #254
    Junior Member nijasumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    I can relate to this.

    I cannot speak for other ENTP's, but I read so much from what is going on around me that if I do not have sufficient external data in terms of expressions of emotion or statements of commitment I assume that things are not going well. I know that INXJ's often feel that once they say something there is no further need to say the same thing. So this can create a challenge.
    I guess INFJ-ENTP people are really good with controlling their emotions and suppressing physical/verbal hints that they do not want to reveal. It can be an enigma sometimes how the interaction works.

    I had an infj friend for years and our first impression of each other was so insignificant we dismissed each other existence until recently. Our first serious conversation was horrendously explosive. We pissed each other off in the worst imaginable way possible. Guess that's the first defensive wall down- Underestimating each other.

    After that, we connected in a way that is so cosmic and bizarre. We kept talking and debating endlessly for hours, draining each other's brain dry but it never seem to deplete our mental energy though.

    He slowly opened up and each layer of defense was more difficult to break than the previous one. When all defense is down, he retreated into silence - hoping to never reveal anymore weakness and just to impress in the future.

    The creepy thing is, I never had the intention of giving up. He is such a mystery and it intrigues me to explore every inch of his neurons, cells and his soul ultimately.

  5. #255
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyst View Post
    ...they INFJ finds out that the ENTP is invested in a billion other areas, making the INFJ feel like yesterday's newspaper. Discarded.

    I think what it comes down to is that the ENTPs know how to play to the INFJs but ultimately don't need INFJs because they get along with so many types. INFJs don't have that luxury so we're kind of like the girlfriend that will always go back to the abusive boyfriend, knowing they're just going to get hurt.
    That's really fuking interesting because either that is true that the INFJ needs to go back to the ENTP...OR..I've seen an INFJ act like she could care less. You think this is a mask to true INFJ feelings? Not wanting to get too close so backing off at that point to avoid sharp pain of separation so the INFJ 'self-separates' in advance of what is viewed as imminent?

    I hope I don't hear you being a martyr brother. ENTPs need the depth that INFJs can meet...truly in my opinion.
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  6. #256
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilisa View Post
    A lot of comes down to letting go of fear for both parties. Good communication is possible and worth the effort between these types.

    Its so interesting to hear the characteristics of my fellow INFJs. .
    Ya if your INFJ isn't so immature. I know, sounds ironic.
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  7. #257
    Senior Member Nescio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I wonder if it's the same if the genders are reversed. Are the female ENTPs as INFJ crazy as the men are? For some reason I keep thinking they prefer Ts, or at least the pull isn't as intense.
    personally I only have an N preference

    and yes INFJ=

  8. #258
    Member Johnfloyd6675's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Perhaps the reason you don't hear about INFJs going after ENTPs is that they are naturally more likely to wait for someone to approach them and they also tend to do more solitary activities. The ENTP is more likely to vocalize their enthusiasm to a wider audience as well. I think ENTPs like us because we slow them down and we make them see some familiar subjects/situations with similarities, but give new perspectives that they haven't encountered.
    Yes, we strive to give new perspectives that people haven't encountered. We're the only MBTI type that's also the callsign of an NPR station.

    ENTPs want glory the same way that ENTJs want power; their day-to-day behavior vacuums up attention and authority faster than a simile. Now, ENTPs do care deeply about others, and I assume this about ENTJs, but can't speak from an ENTJ brain, so I dunno. Maybe they think you all smell. Assuming otherwise, however, I think that ENTJs and ENTPs are two flavors of ice cream in a sugar cone: they're the leadership caste (along with ENFPs) and, while of course this is America and they can do whatever they want, chances are the average introvert will find ENTs appealing because they are respected and powerful and not too hard on the eyes.

    There's not a whole hell of a lot of moral consciousness for an ENTP; between the Ne and the Ti, we dont have time to think about Hell. But I think that a lot of the appeal to INFx and introverts generally is that here you've got an ENTP in the middle of the room, telling a funny story to a rapt audience, but if you look in his eyes you'll see he's not having the time of his life. He's just rolling. And I think that, of all the types, the ENTP could kill somebody (for a reason) without skipping much of a beat. Rolling just to keep on rolling.

    That's why we hot

    That's why we're sexy.

  9. #259
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    If being fascinated with ENTP Timelords (Doctor Who) count, then yes, there is a natural fascination.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Johari/Nohari

    “Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings -- always darker, emptier and simpler.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche




  10. #260
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    Default more on infj entp

    Hi all, I am new to the forum but have been a student of type for the past 15 years or so. I am an ENTP and have had a number of romantic and platonic relationships with INFJ's over the years.

    If I could sum up the attraction of the ENTP/INFJ, it would be this;
    INFJ's understand themselves, but don't understand the world. ENTP's understand the world, but don't understand themselves.

    This yin/yang effect works because both types get utility out of the relationship: INFJ's need to better understand the world, and the ENTP's can help them with that. ENTP's need to better understand themselves, and INFJ's can help them with that.

    This is then facilitated by a similar iNtuitive communication style with helps them to understand each other, and supported by a common Fe function (so they are both emotionally oriented on each other) and a common Ti function (so they don't get on each others nerves by talking at each other (i.e. extroverted thinking)).

    And not too sure where this fits in, but INFJ's have a strong sense of "soul" or "universal meaning" that is absent in the ENTP. When the ENTP gets discouraged with life (the Ne-primary "beat down") the INFJ can offer up the ultimate support to the ENTP, which is an assuredness that their is actually a point (or meaning) to all of the BS of life. In return, the INFJ get's to be the sharer of this "ultimate truth" with the ENTP, which reaffirms to them their own specialness and meaning-giving in the world.

    A win/win - and both INFJ's and ENTP's like that (the common Fe orientation :-) ) !

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