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  1. #241
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nijasumi View Post
    Funny, I am an ENTP who met an INFJ. I feel that I m the one more emotionally invested due to the fact that he is always holding back his feelings so much. So I will never know how 'invested' he really is.

    Too many internal defensive walls for me to break down, it's a delicious challenge though I have to admit.
    I can relate to this.

    I cannot speak for other ENTP's, but I read so much from what is going on around me that if I do not have sufficient external data in terms of expressions of emotion or statements of commitment I assume that things are not going well. I know that INXJ's often feel that once they say something there is no further need to say the same thing. So this can create a challenge.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  2. #242
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    there's often a kind of imbalance between the infj perception and the perception of the other.
    I have noticed this.

    we are definitely challenging. i think infj-entp is celebrated because entp is one of the few types who sees that "challenge" as a positive thing, rather than an exhausting waltz with a hot air balloon who is always too inflated or deflated (although the later is more relevant to the extremely intense sx infjs).
    Interesting. I always feel like the inflated or deflated one. Do you notice your ENTP friend being inflated/deflated a lot?
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    I can relate to this.

    I cannot speak for other ENTP's, but I read so much from what is going on around me that if I do not have sufficient external data in terms of expressions of emotion or statements of commitment I assume that things are not going well. I know that INXJ's often feel that once they say something there is no further need to say the same thing. So this can create a challenge.
    Amen brotha.

    I definitely need more data to work with when interacting with INxJs over an extended period of time. Otherwise, like you, I am uncertain of where things are going.

  4. #244
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Interesting. I always feel like the inflated or deflated one. Do you notice your ENTP friend being inflated/deflated a lot?
    no, i don't ever really see him deflated. he's the most positively realistic but still ambitious and still aware of the needs of others person i've ever met.

    my perception of you is entp 7w6 sx/sp, which is different than him. he's a 7w6 sx/so, more free flowing, all in, really open, etc. i'm an sx/sp, and i see that as more conflicted, more inner tension, more tendency to be paranoid, more time spent imagining the worst and a desire to understand how to deal with the worst. as if the worst is always a little closer/more nearby than it is for sx/so. who just invest completely and without fear of repercussions. both sx types have kind of addictive personalities.

    i learn a lot about finding the best overall attitude towards approaching life, completely accepting what may come but being resolute and decisive in the approach to making the best of whatever situation may present itself. it's a great counterbalance to me, who spends far more time trying to prepare for dealing with the worst, and imagining it, which takes too much time away from focusing on what i do want and always trying to put myself in a better place (which i feel is a more winning strategy in the long run).

    as far as the first point about infjs at times having an inaccurate perception of the overall, i think part of that is heavily modified by infjs who are so dom or /so in their enneagram stacking. they can get the social vibes more. the sp and sx types are more focused on what they want or their own kind of reticent, private space. it's definitely not all infjs who are out of touch. i think the lack of Fi presents certain blindspots when imagining the experience of others as well. we, like you, need demonstrativeness, or symbolic action, so we can ascertain the motive. Ti can be really balancing for us in this regard, a good story can reassure us of what is true, what has unfolded, what has followed from what. it provides a context to understand motives, and if the story rings true, we'll be able to trust it. i hate needing reassurance, and maybe some day when i'm enlightened i won't need it.

    ps i don't know if you've ever read them, but shakespeare's dark lady sonnets feel entp 7w6 sx/sp. i'm in a class--i'm specifically thinking of #138.

  5. #245
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Interesting, State and Synarch! I always have felt like if anything, I am the way too transparent and demonstrative one compared to the T types I tend to be attracted to. I hate feeling like I don't know where I'm at with them. I am so/sx though, so maybe that's part of it. I do get a more aloof vibe from some other varieties of INFJs. I still find though that I need someone else's reaction to understand if their perception of me matches up with what I think I am transmitting to them. I've never really had someone give me much feedback in that way, so I still am not sure if I am conveying all I intend to to someone I care for a lot.

  6. #246
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Interesting, State and Synarch! I always have felt like if anything, I am the way too transparent and demonstrative one compared to the T types I tend to be attracted to. I hate feeling like I don't know where I'm at with them. I am so/sx though, so maybe that's part of it. I do get a more aloof vibe from some other varieties of INFJs. I still find though that I need someone else's reaction to understand if their perception of me matches up with what I think I am transmitting to them. I've never really had someone give me much feedback in that way, so I still am not sure if I am conveying all I intend to to someone I care for a lot.
    It may be the 'so' instinctual variant, then!

    I really don't know that I can be objective about this... asking a friend or partner how 'transparent' I am would be much more helpful. I am not certain that I am *good* at hiding my emotions, although part of it may be that with those I am close to, I choose not to hide all traces. So, I suspect those who know me would sense when things were off... either by my body language or more likely by the fact that I've become too still, inward, and un-demonstrative.

    I do, however, have quite a difficult time verbalizing my emotions. Part of that is that I am incredibly uncomfortable verbalizing them before I've fully explored them, because 1. After exploration they might dissolve away and all of it's a non-issue, and 2. Tied to that I never want to prematurely talk about something if I haven't analyzed it to figure out what's going on. Typically when something's up, I tend to have conflicting emotions or thoughts and am no longer certain if I'm blowing everything out of proportion or if I'm in fact 'justified' to my emotions and it's something I need to talk about. While I understand this is frustrating for those I'm close to - i.e. they might prefer my unexplored, unfiltered, un-thought-through thoughts/perceptions, I believe in most cases my unexplored thoughts/feelings are so jumbled and half of them might be so ridiculous or off the mark that it would cause more problems, confusion, misunderstandings, and potential hurt to state them in the moment than after I've thought through everything.

    I think tied to what I just wrote, that's why in relationships I can actually seem less demonstrative and much less expressive sometimes than T's. I also have a tendency to retreat and become fearful when someone's overly demonstrative to me... although I guess that is usually when my feelings towards them aren't in sync with how they're treating me.
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  7. #247
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    cascadeco, that sounds really sp to me. so types are able to dial in to the social reality much more effortlessly than us. i have an easy time exploring someone--i can break down their defenses, draw them out, see them very nakedly, and i can match their energy if i COMPLETELY believe in the situation and desire it, but as soon as that dissipates, as i become unsure, i have a tendency to retreat as well. at that point, i lose sense of what i want, what is true, what the interaction means to both parties and to others in a social context/shared reality. i want to get it together, collect and organize my thoughts and feelins, understand exactly what it is that i want and what is true, before i become fully open again, instead staying somewhat withdrawn and very private.

    so types borrow their self-understandings from the world more naturally. the infj 4w5 so/sx girl i know has a really difficult time knowing where to draw lines, to stand firm and say that she is right and that the conflicting party (with her) is in fact wrong. she wants sympathy and understanding and moral support, a kind of alliance with others, in a way that seems somewhat stronger than how i generally seem to feel. while it is true, i think, of most Fe users, my sx sense of what i want makes me more stubborn, impatient, unbudging, whereas she is more flexible and diffuse. i think so types are more often to have their general sense of lightness turn into this kind of DRIFTING away kind of anxiety. i don't feel lost when 100% stressed, i feel that the world has nothing in it of value for me, i lose my ability to want, and in the midst of that, there's no place to escape and let it all pass me by.

  8. #248
    Symbolic Herald Vasilisa's Avatar
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    I recognize this thread is about all nature of partnerships, not just romantic. I just wanted to relate some of the great comments to my experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    being open and in the moment all the time is next to impossible for us because we feel it can consume us from the inside out. we are always looking for improvements, always scanning for possibilities, imagining the whole of the story that has come before--it creates a kind of exhausting perfection, and the lack of Ji in the first two functions makes grounding technqiues really important so we don't short-circuit. both stress response and balancing internal/external pressures (our own idealism vs the reality of the situation/what is actually here before us) are our primary weak points. and Pi has trouble letting go of the past, because it is so often referencing the past when engaging the present and imagining the future. it is always part of the story surrounding us, part of the total meaning of our lives and the world we live in.

    .... with the entp especially, i think i assume emotional annoyance and irritation far more than what is likely to be the case (whereas the intps probably actually ARE annoyed! ). he has mostly purified his own psychological system, balanced himself very well, so he doesn't do things that are damaging to him. we obviously have a great connection--but i have way more of a tendency to doubt that with him and with others because i don't slow down and imagine the Ti validity of judgment in the situation, understanding motive from more perspectives than just what my Fe is receiving as input.

    we are definitely challenging. i think infj-entp is celebrated because entp is one of the few types who sees that "challenge" as a positive thing, rather than an exhausting waltz with a hot air balloon who is always too inflated or deflated (although the later is more relevant to the extremely intense sx infjs).
    So well said! It resonates a lot, so thanks for explaining it. In my experience in a romantic relationship with an ENTP, once good communication was established I didn't hold back or edit myself and he was able to express emotion without fear. And not getting uptight over anticipated annoyance was key. Which some might find contradictory with what I said about not editing, but it was more a frame of mind, as you described. A level of security. It does not come easy. Perhaps he loved me best when I could just be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Interesting. I always feel like the inflated or deflated one. Do you notice your ENTP friend being inflated/deflated a lot?
    I'm just going to come out and boldly state that I think a devoted INFJ is one of the best things for a deflated ENTP. Certainly I'm biased. Mine wasn't balanced, and he struggled with psychic pain (as do we all). Emotionally nurturing him during his deflated times came naturally to me, and it was deeply rewarding. And it made him grasp my devotion and start to trust. From what I have read this plays out with other couples of this type and it works for many. I think what nijasumi described is the tougher scenario.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aramis View Post
    Amen brotha.

    I definitely need more data to work with when interacting with INxJs over an extended period of time. Otherwise, like you, I am uncertain of where things are going.
    If I understand it, you guys are referring to INFJs not talking or verbally expressing themselves enough. So evidently there is a lot of enneagram variables that go into this, but speaking as me whatever its worth, once you have us by the heart you will hear a lot more. When its a love connection, its so valuable, it is worth discussing. It is easy to get swept up, if you're clicking and fascinated and exhilarated, and discussion can fall by the wayside. We had some temporary separations (just life-happens kind of stuff) and kind of like seeds opened in fire, our relationship grew at that time because it allowed us to find another level of connection with communication.
    My comments probably don't help you understand us, but maybe its some encouragement. A lot of comes down to letting go of fear for both parties. Good communication is possible and worth the effort between these types.

    Its so interesting to hear the characteristics of my fellow INFJs.
    Plus I'm inspired to tackle the enneagram question again.
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  9. #249
    One day and the next Rainne's Avatar
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    ENTPs are funny =)
    Weathergirl: District 38 is sunny. Slight rock showers this morning. Chance of rock showers into the afternoon—20 percent. District 39 is cloudy. Chance of rock showers this afternoon—10 percent.
    Edward: Bebop here here! Alright woo hoo!
    Weathergirl: Chance of rock showers today upgraded to 90 percent.
    Edward: Really.

  10. #250
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    just wondering if infjs are fascinated / drawn to certain enneagram types of entps more than other entps or if it's that infj are drawn to 7's but methinks its the Ne Ti that infjs like & enneagram type doesn't mean poop cuz if infjs were drawn to 7's then they'd be fascinated by enfps too, . . . which doesn't seem the case . . . oih . . . i hope my infj boyfriend doesn't meet any entp chicks anytime soon . . . i guess entps, regardless of their enneagram type is the draw?

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