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  1. #151
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    It seems to be more a result of their own straightforwardness. They can assume that everyone is as straightforward and in control as they are.
    i can imagine this leading to unhealthy gossip? or an occasional awkward situation?

    the only time i have ever been in an inappropriate situation involved an entp female, ironically enough. she seemed on a mission to get me drunk. and i think it was just to see if she could.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Here's the thing, also. Do women tend to initiate contact as much as men? Why do you think this is?
    i agree in pessimism but see additional factors as well. men also crave the nurturing discussed earlier. they crave the feeling. they crave the freedom from other men who bullshit and make a bunch of grandiose bullshit claims about their own greatness. locker room talk, etc.

    there's an infj girl in my class and i'm constantly paying attention to her. i want to know her more. but it's NOT romantic. the only thing is that if she were a dude, i would be crossing lines even more than i am just by wanting to interact with her.

    i too see the world as full of contradiction, temptation, and conflict. but i see them as inescapable, and while the rules you make seem to produce a far higher form of ethical behavior that is extremely admirable, i am afraid of preventing life, from making it too constrained, wilted, etc. i feel that the ultimate truth of these fears is not strictly an inherent truth of value or rule, but also those values and rules in place set up for my own security, to absolve my fears, to say that i know the answer, etc. but i don't, and moving toward being able to be the victim, in this case, seems equally beneficial and healthy to me as eliminating cheating from society completely through a hard and fast rule.

  2. #152
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i can imagine this leading to unhealthy gossip? or an occasional awkward situation?

    the only time i have ever been in an inappropriate situation involved an entp female, ironically enough. she seemed on a mission to get me drunk. and i think it was just to see if she could.
    Ah. I do think devil-may-care types could take advantage of a trusting INFJ. That is funny, though.

    i agree in pessimism but see additional factors as well. men also crave the nurturing discussed earlier. they crave the feeling. they crave the freedom from other men who bullshit and make a bunch of grandiose bullshit claims about their own greatness. locker room talk, etc.

    there's an infj girl in my class and i'm constantly paying attention to her. i want to know her more. but it's NOT romantic. the only thing is that if she were a dude, i would be crossing lines even more than i am just by wanting to interact with her.

    i too see the world as full of contradiction, temptation, and conflict. but i see them as inescapable, and while the rules you make seem to produce a far higher form of ethical behavior that is extremely admirable, i am afraid of preventing life, from making it too constrained, wilted, etc. i feel that the ultimate truth of these fears is not strictly an inherent truth of value or rule, but also those values and rules in place set up for my own security, to absolve my fears, to say that i know the answer, etc. but i don't, and moving toward being able to be the victim, in this case, seems equally beneficial and healthy to me as eliminating cheating from society completely through a hard and fast rule.
    These are good points, I think. I tend to fear my lack of control so I try to control circumstances, even artificially. I confess it's not always effective nor the best approach. I feel like I have to set up systems to bind myself to good behavior. INFJ's seem a bit more confident in their own responses to situations because they tend to be consistent, in some way.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  3. #153
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Sometimes they are overconfident though and forget they are human. If the stakes are high enough, I prefer to put rules on my conduct as a preventative measure. "Better to shun the bait than struggle in the snare".

  4. #154
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Sometimes they are overconfident though and forget they are human. If the stakes are high enough, I prefer to put rules on my conduct as a preventative measure. "Better to shun the bait than struggle in the snare".
    Yes, well that's why I feel it's best to acknowledge temptation. Otherwise it's easy to start letting yourself off the hook. At least it has been for me. I was at a party once a few years ago and I was talking to a married friend. She told me in passing, "You're dangerous." and I knew what she meant. It wasn't that I was on the prowl, or that I was a person who would do something I knew was wrong. I wasn't even flirting with her AT ALL. I think she just sensed a vulnerability. Far better to acknowledge its existence and try to be mindful.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  5. #155
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Yeah, I don't think all mistakes have to be achieved first hand.

  6. #156
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Ah. I do think devil-may-care types could take advantage of a trusting INFJ. That is funny, though.

    These are good points, I think. I tend to fear my lack of control so I try to control circumstances, even artificially. I confess it's not always effective nor the best approach. I feel like I have to set up systems to bind myself to good behavior. INFJ's seem a bit more confident in their own responses to situations because they tend to be consistent, in some way.
    i'm just opening it up a bit because that's what i do. my entp friend always wants to find rules. the influence has made me a far better person than i was before knowing him, and his own combination of rules and vision generally is why i go to him for guidance before anyone else. Ne and Ti fulfills my two biggest needs internally, Ne makes me more positive outcome focused, toward thinking vs away from, and Ti gives me the finishing touch, the final foundation to feel secure, firm-footed, etc.

    i've seen the growth process for Ti in many many people. my little brother is right on the border of intp/entp 3w4. i've seen how ethical Ti can become and the positive influence it can have in ethical discourse/practices. i just think we can both learn our own best methods, balance ourselves as well as we can, learn from other approaches, and still be capable of trusting our methods while seeing a bigger picture than we can possibly encapsulate as but one individual.

    also, for the most part, i'm not really interested in devil-may-care people. i have been seriously risk aversive in relationships, and i am just now slowly building up a faith in my ability to gradually introduce more elements into my social life. i am interested in absorbing as many perspectives as possible, but i've already figured out what resonates with me and how i relate. at this point it's just refining, testing, and being grateful that i am now capable of being happy. and expanding and developnig the best connections, learning how to communicate better, and inspire and be inspired by others.

  7. #157
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i'm just opening it up a bit because that's what i do. my entp friend always wants to find rules. the influence has made me a far better person than i was before knowing him, and his own combination of rules and vision generally is why i go to him for guidance before anyone else. Ne and Ti fulfills my two biggest needs internally, Ne makes me more positive outcome focused, toward thinking vs away from, and Ti gives me the finishing touch, the final foundation to feel secure, firm-footed, etc.
    This rule making seems to be the result of an extraverted approach to the world.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  8. #158
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    This rule making seems to be the result of an extraverted approach to the world.
    i'm not sure what you mean. i just assumed it was a straight shot for Ti.

  9. #159
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i'm not sure what you mean. i just assumed it was a straight shot for Ti.
    Rather than formulate rules for myself I try to extrapolate "laws" of human conduct at work in the world.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  10. #160
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Doesn't everyone do that? Wait, I guess not, but...how do people formulate their personal guidelines without observing general principles in society and the effects of keeping them or breaking them?

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