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  1. #21
    Lungs & Lips Locked Unkindloving's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    wait. so you're afraid to call her about good news? (getting a job is good news, right?)
    I don't think they are saying it is bad news, but that it basically will come across as "You win, Mom. I got a job, like you told me to, and am calling you now."
    It will just reinforce her tactics, i suppose?
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  2. #22
    Senior Member pyramid's Avatar
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    Indeed. I don't know how you can command people to do life activities (over and over and over) and not see it as being patronizing. Especially when she lives very comfortably and does not feel the effects of poverty resulting from years of chronic illness and barely being able to work during that time.

    My mom can be the sweetest most thoughtful person in the whole world and the world's nastiest ice queen bitch. She would often display side #1 in front of my friends so they look at me like I'm confused when I describe an expression of side #2.

  3. #23
    That's my name biotch! JoSunshine's Avatar
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    My ex-boyfriend has an ENFJ mom who is highly manipulative. Boy was it a sight to see. If I hadn't met her, I would probably wonder what all the ENFJ bashing on this forum is about (not speaking about your post, btw...more of a general statement). It really is something. If she doesn't get her way, she withdraws attention, praise, love and limits communication and becomes down right cold. Once he and his sister complied with her demands and were back in her good graces they were "the-most-superdy-duperdy-most-brilliant-most-special-kids-in-the-whole-wide-world" and would shower them with gifts and financial support that 20 and 30 something kids don't typically get. It was almost like they were addicted to her praise and felt worthless without it. She fostered emotional and financial dependance (that she withdraws at will) in order to be able to manipulate her family. That lady has quite a racket going on.

    I don't know the inracacies of your relationship with your mother, but it definitely sounds like there is some pretty significant manipulation going on there. As long as you buy into the manipulation, she will continue to try to control you. It sounds like you care about your mother and I agree that you don't want to regret not talking to her, but at the same time she needs to learn that manipulation is not the way to get what she wants from you.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. " - Dr. Seuss
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  4. #24
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Are you sure your mom isnt an ESFJ? Nothing is more personal to an ESFJ mom than her kids trying to not be "normal". They then will stop at nothing to make sure their kids dont "turn out weird" and "reflect poorly on her" :eyeroll: The fact that she wears a mask around family and your friends sounds more like SFJ Fe. (SFJ Fe is informing, NFJ is directing; they are very different Fe's).

  5. #25
    That's my name biotch! JoSunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    SFJ Fe is informing, NFJ is directing; they are very different Fe's
    What do you mean by this? I'm interested.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. " - Dr. Seuss
    I can't spell...get over it

    Slightly ENFJ, totally JoSunshine
    Extroverted (E) 52.5%........Introverted (I) 47.5%
    Intuitive (N) 65.63%..........Sensing (S) 34.38%
    Feeling (F) 55.56%............Thinking (T) 44.44%
    Judging (J) 51.43%............Perceiving (P) 48.57%

  6. #26
    Senior Member BlueFlame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyramid View Post
    Indeed. I don't know how you can command people to do life activities (over and over and over) and not see it as being patronizing. Especially when she lives very comfortably and does not feel the effects of poverty resulting from years of chronic illness and barely being able to work during that time.

    My mom can be the sweetest most thoughtful person in the whole world and the world's nastiest ice queen bitch. She would often display side #1 in front of my friends so they look at me like I'm confused when I describe an expression of side #2.
    If my mother told me to call her when I got a job, I would make sure she heard through the grapevine that I had a job AGES before I would bother picking up the phone to call her.

    She could be an ESFJ, but I can see an ENFJ who has been expending a lot of her energy supporting someone behaving the way she did. I don't think people realize how much energy we can put into others, and when we run out of emotional energy, we run the hell out.
    Personally, I tend to feel like I'm doing ALL of the work and the other person is making excuses and not doing anything to help themselves, and I become resentful of that thought - even if it isn't true - and force distance until I recover.

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  7. #27
    Senior Member pyramid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoSunshine View Post
    My ex-boyfriend has an ENFJ mom who is highly manipulative. Boy was it a sight to see. If I hadn't met her, I would probably wonder what all the ENFJ bashing on this forum is about (not speaking about your post, btw...more of a general statement). It really is something. If she doesn't get her way, she withdraws attention, praise, love and limits communication and becomes down right cold. Once he and his sister complied with her demands and were back in her good graces they were "the-most-superdy-duperdy-most-brilliant-most-special-kids-in-the-whole-wide-world" and would shower them with gifts and financial support that 20 and 30 something kids don't typically get. It was almost like they were addicted to her praise and felt worthless without it. She fostered emotional and financial dependance (that she withdraws at will) in order to be able to manipulate her family. That lady has quite a racket going on.

    I don't know the inracacies of your relationship with your mother, but it definitely sounds like there is some pretty significant manipulation going on there. As long as you buy into the manipulation, she will continue to try to control you. It sounds like you care about your mother and I agree that you don't want to regret not talking to her, but at the same time she needs to learn that manipulation is not the way to get what she wants from you.


    wow this is IT! I see investing this energy into the manipulation when it could go into being the amazing person that she is.

  8. #28
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    SFJ Fe is informing, NFJ is directing; they are very different Fe's.
    Quote Originally Posted by JoSunshine View Post
    What do you mean by this? I'm interested.
    Informing versus directing styles of interaction are profoundly different. You might want to check out the two links below to learn more. (<= Note my informative communication style which is the way ENFPs tend to communicate.)


  9. #29
    Senior Member pyramid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    Are you sure your mom isnt an ESFJ? Nothing is more personal to an ESFJ mom than her kids trying to not be "normal". They then will stop at nothing to make sure their kids dont "turn out weird" and "reflect poorly on her" :eyeroll: The fact that she wears a mask around family and your friends sounds more like SFJ Fe. (SFJ Fe is informing, NFJ is directing; they are very different Fe's).
    she's an ENFJ -- she has slightly conservative stances (on things including) me not being weird but face it, my much of my family is "weird" and I make it look good. I helped her get over my innate weirdness by expressing it early on

    Just to be sure I gave the ESFJ a good look again, it was almost as suiting as ENFJ, but the wording for the latter was much more appropriate. I also just get a heavy N vibe off her as someone that uses it a lot. Her career leans that direction too.

    She is absolutely much more directing than she is informative. *ENFJ would also comply with why she cannot stand my father.*

    I am still open to the ESFJ idea but that doesn't seem to describe her enough.

  10. #30
    Senior Member BlueFlame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoSunshine View Post
    My ex-boyfriend has an ENFJ mom who is highly manipulative. Boy was it a sight to see. If I hadn't met her, I would probably wonder what all the ENFJ bashing on this forum is about (not speaking about your post, btw...more of a general statement). It really is something. If she doesn't get her way, she withdraws attention, praise, love and limits communication and becomes down right cold. Once he and his sister complied with her demands and were back in her good graces they were "the-most-superdy-duperdy-most-brilliant-most-special-kids-in-the-whole-wide-world" and would shower them with gifts and financial support that 20 and 30 something kids don't typically get. It was almost like they were addicted to her praise and felt worthless without it. She fostered emotional and financial dependance (that she withdraws at will) in order to be able to manipulate her family. That lady has quite a racket going on.

    I don't know the inracacies of your relationship with your mother, but it definitely sounds like there is some pretty significant manipulation going on there. As long as you buy into the manipulation, she will continue to try to control you. It sounds like you care about your mother and I agree that you don't want to regret not talking to her, but at the same time she needs to learn that manipulation is not the way to get what she wants from you.
    Wow, I'm glad I'm not the only one who has a mom like that! I don't know anyone IRL who really knows what it's like to be held hostage by your own mother (Actually, now that I think about it, my SO and one of my close friends have dealt with a high level of emotional manipulation from their ESFJ mothers, but it's a lot different, so I don't really relate to it.)! She leans more to the P side of life, so Fe isn't really her thing, but money-wise, my god. She really did create a world of financial dependence for my brother and I. Partially because that's just how she shows her love, but also because it's how she exerts control. I was married with children and she was STILL paying my college tuition, rent, cell phone bill and god knows what else....and using it to keep me in line because *whoever has the gold makes the rules.* She was actually going to attempt to MAKE me go to medical school and withdraw support if I refused.
    So, I let her. Best thing I've ever done. I needed to make my own path in life, even if that meant being poor for a while.

    I still accept gifts, though. She can't take those back.

    Quote Originally Posted by pyramid
    am still open to the ESFJ idea but that doesn't seem to describe her enough.
    The fluid-like relationship you have suggests to me that she's also an N, not an ESFJ.

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