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[NF] Angry rant

Siúil a Rúin

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It sounds a lot like the tension that results from being 19. You are pretty much ready to be living on your own, or to go away to school. These types of conflict will likely increase until you move out. But it isn't a bad thing because that day is coming soon.

Because parents are older, there is a tendency for them to be more set in their ways. Negotiations to change preferences and lifestyle tend to veer in favor of those more entrenched. Also parents have a history of being in charge over their children, so even that can be a habit.

In short I'm saying, that at least it is a short-term problem in a practical sense, but is not terribly likely to resolve itself in the current scenario.
 

sculpting

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then there is only one thing left to do. masturbate while watching porn sometime when shes rushing in :yes:

This is so horribly wrong. Yet would do the trick, but then she say he was going to hell.

The ENFP version: Take a shower and then sit at your computer and start working with a towel covering the junk. Then turn on the music and wait for her to show up. No mom wants to see her kids junk or even her 19 year old kid in a towel.

I have a 15 year old. I ALWAYS knock. I dont want to know what goes on behind closed doors. I'd like to just pretend I dont know.
 

chickpea

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i'm in the same situation as you. i'll be 19 in about a month, and my mom gives me no privacy. she's always coming into my room without knocking or asking and opening my mail. it drives me crazy! luckily i'm moving out (and far away) in a few months.
 

StoryToTell

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Having noise-control problems in the house has to be a worst nightmare for introverts. I too have paper-thin walls.

When will you move out? Maybe invest in some type of acoustic panels? I've been seriously considering making some makeshift panels of my own for a while now.
 
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You sound like you have a level head on your shoulders. Use it wisely. Ranting is an excellent way to diffuse energy, but sometimes it can be a leak in the pipes. When there's a leak, the machine doesn't function with the same persistence or conviction. In other words, sometimes you must simply act upon something that bothers you rather than dumping your energy elsewhere.

Agreed with your entire post, especially this. I actually thought of it in a very similar way while pondering the actions I could take regarding this situation. Ranting really is a release of the steam in the hydraulic tank. There's a benefit to "storing it up" but I honestly don't know how much more of that my cardiovascular system can take. Honestly, I can't even begin to count how many times in a day I feel a clutching stress grab my heart like a vice. I know many people have bigger problems than me (and I'm grateful that this is the most I have to bitch about), but sometimes the workload of 20 credits, combined with almost perpetual creative block, mixed in with a dose of depression is enough to completely stress me out. Then, I can't even listen to some music to unwind...that's just the icing on the cake, ya know?

I mean, technically, you're not living in your own property. You're over 18, and your parents have every right to kick your ass out. Until you get out, they're probably just going to treat you like a wall fixture or something. Not to be mean, but seriously.

You don't even have the right to lock your door because, once again, it's not your property unless that privilege has been granted to you by the owner. The only thing you own is your body, unless you pay rent. Do something with your body, make some art, sell it. Solve the problem instead of analyzing it to death.

I've heard this before, and really I don't understand it. Just because they pay the bills and own the property gives them the right to provide me no privacy? No respect? No socially accepted politeness? This view seems to be highly influenced by American cultural thought on private property rights.

Yes, my father works to pay the bills and the property tax, so of course the house is in his name. I respect that completely. That's why I do my best to respect my parents, even in heated conflict. I never lose it and swear at them or make insane demands or whatever. I always let them in my room ASAP...I just appreciate a polite, 3 second gesture of a knock-knock-knock!

There seems to be a permeating sense of "I own this house/land/building, follow my orders or GTFO my property" in this God-damned country. The fact of the matter is, nobody owns sh*t! This house is a wood and concrete cube built on a plot of land. Yes, my father pays the bills. Yes, the title is in his name. But does that automatically allow my parents to deny me de facto rules of respect? I highly doubt it.

See, I choose to respect them, not because the law says it's their property, but because I love them, am grateful for the care they have provided over the years, and feel that mutual respect amongst humans is the most productive, cheerful way to go throughout life. When that attitude is not reciprocated (especially when my mother does not reciprocate because of blatant selfishness and arrogance), then I start to get upset.

I see what you're saying, but I'd challenge you to take a step back and re-establish the foundation of your argument. Like I said, nobody owns sh*t. And when you pop out a kid, I figure you guarantee that child some form of human dignity.

21% said:
does she just hate noise?

This.

21% said:
And find a way to move out as soon as possible...

My only suggestion is to set a date for moving out, and work quietly and steadily until that date. You can never truly be free in someone else's space. And when you have a date in mind - a goal to work toward - it will feel less oppressive since you know exactly when it is going to end.

When will you move out?

I'm afraid the most you can do is count down the days till you go off to college. In the meantime, earphones are the only way to preserve your sanity. Unfortunately, as utterly unfair as it might seem, it's her roof/her rules.

EDIT: I just saw where you said you were turning 20. Is there some reason why you are unable to move out? (not judging)

I was going to move out...but I let my flaws get the best of me. I had a full-time job, big plans, etc. But my financial mishandling and addictive personality had other things in store.

Here's the thing, it was a blessing that I got out of that job and into a community college. It was high stress -- my supervisor/main co-worker was an ex-methhead. He had transferred his addiction to opiates. I can tell more if you really care to hear, but I'll just leave it at this: NOT a good person for an INFP to be around. :cry: I felt like I was walking on eggshells every day.

What was not a blessing was the way I managed my money. It was a big-time learning experience for me. Unfortunately, it set me back quite a bit. :doh:

Anyway, now I'm going to a local community college, trying to figure out what I want to do, and whether or not I am even meant for the educational system. Unless I land a scholarship, there will be no "going away to college." Which is fine, I'm not too concerned about that.

You could try buying headphones. Some of the more expensive ones have wonderful bass and sometimes sound canceling.

They can get uncomfortable after wearing for too long, but the sound quality is much better than with ear buds (at least IMO).

Earbuds, headphones, whatever, they're all the same. I like the perspective of hearing the sound come at me from a few feet away, and I like the gentle vibrations of the sound waves through my body. If you ask me, headphones/earbuds are for the bus, the library, or 2 AM. Not 2 PM in my bedroom!

It sounds a lot like the tension that results from being 19. You are pretty much ready to be living on your own, or to go away to school. These types of conflict will likely increase until you move out. But it isn't a bad thing because that day is coming soon.

You speak words of wisdom. I have come to accept this. I just wish my mother showed some mutual respect. I really do care about her, but it's hard to even be around her when she's a bitch all the time. I feel our relationship could be much better until the time I do move out.

jenocyde said:
I'm not sure where your father is in this equation, but do you think he would be willing to intercede on your behalf?

My father is excellent. Always knocks, only complains about music if it's far too loud, or rap. A good-hearted Fe, so he's good about providing the whole mutual respect thing.

He's confronted me about this and asked me to use my earbuds and whatnot (my mother complains to him about my noise, sometimes). I calmly explain the actual scenario to him, and half the time there appears a look on his face that seems to say, "Wow...what is going on in this woman's head?"
 

fireandwater

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I see 2 separate issues here. One is the entering without knocking and the other is the music and I think the ethics are different for each.

First off, your mother should knock. If you have made your wish for privacy clear, then it should be respected. I'm the mother of a 13 year old and we are making this adjustment right now. The idea of walking in on a grown young man without knocking is ridiculous to me. It indicates that she is not really understanding you as a 19 year old and it illustrates that you need to get your own place as soon as realistically possible so that you can live as the grown up you have a right to be.

On the other hand, your music is impacting others in your environment directly, so you have the same kind of issue as you would have if you had a roommate or a wife. If what you need is causing suffering for others -- some people have a need for quiet that is every bit as strong, and just as valid as your need for music -- then a compromise needs to be reached in one form or another. Reasonable adults generally would come to some agreement, most likely allowing for a sort of time share of when quiet or music (without headphones) was allowed.

Ultimately, though, you are at an age when you need to be able to live as an adult -- if that's not a paradigm shift your mom is ready to handle yet, then that means getting out on your own, as others have been saying on the thread. And I agree, too, that just having that goal ahead of you will ease the frustration for as long as you are at home.
 

BlueFlame

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Hmm, well, when it comes to the music, there's not much to say. Living with other people once you reach a certain age is annoying. Especially when you don't have equal status in the home, so you can only hope for compromise...you can't really *expect* it.
Such is the life of teenagers on up who have the *luxury* of living at home! Everything has a price, no? You just pay your share of the mortgage with frustration. :)


As far as the privacy/respect issue goes, I feel your pain. My mother is an absolute control freak and it wasn't uncommon for her to go through my things, my locker at school, take my door off the hinges if I dared to lock it, just things like that. But, oddly enough, she always locked her door when she left me or my brother home alone.

I have the same core belief as you, even as a young child - I wasn't just a kid. I was a human being and I deserved respect based solely on that fact. That idea didn't go over well in a *My way or the highway* home, and I'm not quite as serene as you seem to be. I decided at thirteen or fourteen that if no respect was provided to me, limited respect would be returned. Needless to say, I was kicked out many, MANY times for seemingly ridiculous things, because, overall, I was a really good kid.

Anyway, I don't recommend disrespecting your parents whatsoever, but no, not everyone thinks you're entitled to privacy or respect because you're a good person or because you respect them or because it brings harmony...some people do have the *my house, my rules, regardless of your feelings* mentality, and you aren't going to change that. All you can change is yourself, and, for you that means moving out!
 

jenocyde

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He's confronted me about this and asked me to use my earbuds and whatnot (my mother complains to him about my noise, sometimes). I calmly explain the actual scenario to him, and half the time there appears a look on his face that seems to say, "Wow...what is going on in this woman's head?"

That's great, he sounds awesome. But I meant do you think he would talk to your mother on your behalf? The fact is that you are a man now, no longer a boy or an extension of her, and she may not recognize that yet. It may take another man to tell her what appropriate behaviors and privacy a man is entitled to.

If you can't play music, fine. That sucks but she won't change. But as far as bursting into your bedroom, well, that's just inappropriate behavior on many levels.
 

jenocyde

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Also, how do you react when she barges in? If you cower, she may have confirmation of her dominance. People treat you the way you teach them to treat you. When she bursts in, stand up and face her and tell her calmly and respectfully that you will turn the music down but that she must always knock and wait for acknowledgment before entering. It may take a few times and some hysterics, but hold your ground - respectfully. Don't argue, just merely repeat what you've said - no wiggle room, no excuses.

Giving someone else respect doesn't mean that you shouldn't respect yourself.
 

Thalassa

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Great idea. I've done this several times before. She says she understands, and things get better for about 4 days. Then bitch mode re-engages.



I'm 19, nearing 20.

When I was 19, nearing 20, I didn't live with my parents. That's always an option, you know, if you're an adult.

She's done this my entire life. Like I said, I've asked politely, calmly, and tactfully for her to knock and respect my privacy. Something along the lines of, "I'm not trying to hide anything from you. I have always let you and dad in my room right away, just knock first and wait for a response. It's not like I'm going to say no or anything." You'd think I'd be used to it by now. Instead, I feel like I'm being driven gradually insane by the complete lack of privacy, the surprise flings of the door, and the inability to listen to my music in mid-day without (at the very least) hearing a voice yell for me to turn it down.

Again, I'm wondering why you don't move, get roommates, or if you're in college get into a dorm.

My exes mother did this to us when we lived with his parents for a few months. He was in his late twenties at the time. Some people are just invasive and have no boundaries. I associate this behavior with unhealthy SFJs but that could just be my experience.

I'd be more than happy to make a compromise. Thing is, it doesn't matter if it's noon or midnight, either way the music will be a definite no.

Is there a particular reason that you can't wear headphones or ear buds?

It's 4 AM here right now. She must have awakened to go to the bathroom or something, because she just now flung the door open to see if I had any music playing. I have earbuds in...not even any music playing, either. That's the thing, she won't hear music, but she'll try to surprise me to catch me listening to music even it it's not audible out of the room!

Same thing happened the other night. I had NO audio playing, whatsoever. She busted in and yelled, "turn it off!" I swear, she either A. makes this stuff up to try to catch me listening to music or B. literally thinks it's happening.

I just can't wait to move the hell out...thankfully I'm almost done getting my AAS. Now to find a decent job. Let me tell you, this city's job market is worthy of another rant in and of itself. :doh:

Your mom sounds invasive. There's nothing you can really do about that except try to find space and privacy for yourself, maybe by going to the park or the library or something. I understand from the bolded part why you are so frustrated. That's pretty crazy.
 

Thalassa

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I almost wonder if she's trying to passive-aggressively force you to move out by bugging you to death. Some parents will do that.
 

Tiltyred

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Can you suggest to her that SHE wear headphones and listen to her music while you listen to your music without them? For an hour, maybe. Then she would be hearing what she likes to hear, and you would be free for a bit.

As to the no-privacy things, the only tactic that ever worked for me with that was direct getback -- start opening up her door whenever you feel like it. And open her mail. Act goofily innocent if she says something. "Well, you always come right into my room when the door's shut ... i thought that's just what we do..." or flat out push the dresser up against the door so she can't open it, and when you push it away to let her in and she wants to know what the hell you're doing, just calmly say that was the only way you could get her to stop barging in.
 

file cabinet

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you probably won't agree with this but it's her home and maybe you should move out if it really bothers you as much it does her ... and I recommend some sweet beyerdynamic dt 770 headphones if you want to keep living there.
 

INTP

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..but the sound quality is much better than with ear buds (at least IMO).

depends on headphones and ear buds. i got AKG K 141 Studio headphones and Ultimate Ears Super.fi Pro 5 ear buds and the buds have clearly better sound quality(sound clarity, bass, middles and highs, also they play really low bass louder but still softly and in good balance with other frequencys), but the buds are bit more expensive and have dual speakers in each bud. but naturally headphones are better on head and more comfortable for long listening on computer or stereo.

if you got enough money you can get headphones that sound as good as low end hifi speakers, but theyr the kind of ones where you need to get good amplifier also or headphone amplifier
 

Fidelia

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Your mother is much more likely to treat you as an adult if you display characteristics that indicate adult responsibility and outlook:

- Sleeping/waking at regular hours so that you are prepared to go to work or be productive during the day.

- Contributing to the general atmosphere of the house and thoughtfully considering the needs and wants of the people you live with.

- Supporting yourself and either working or studying (not looking for work or deciding what you may sometime study).

- Taking responsibility for bad behaviour. When your failures are attributed to outside circumstances (even if those were contributing factors) it takes away your credibility to others.

- Showing that you can effectively manage yours/other's money.

- Cleaning up after yourself and contributing to household tasks that need to be done.

- Recognizing the things that you do have to be thankful for.

- Not spending your spare time in your bedroom masturbating. And if you need a lock, be proactive and buy/install one yourself.

That sounds a little harsh, but age is not what makes you an adult, or a man. The more responsibility and thoughtfulness you show, the more likely it is that others will find it less needful to check up on you or doubt your level of trustworthiness. You are 19, which is not that far past childhood to begin with. Your first venture has resulted in you quitting your job (blaming it on your messed up boss), misspending the money you made, and complaining that your mom won't let you listen to your music the way you want to whenever you want to. You right now are not even able to be in charge of your own moods/contentment/happiness. And if you want to wack off, has it not occurred to you that the bathroom has a locking door?

While it might be nice to have her be less intrusive, you have chosen to live there, my guess is that you are not paying rent, and it is her home. Therefore she and your dad have the right to decide what kind of environment that they would like in it.
 

Thalassa

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Your mother is much more likely to treat you as an adult if you display characteristics that indicate adult responsibility and outlook:

- Sleeping/waking at regular hours so that you are prepared to go to work or be productive during the day.

- Contributing to the general atmosphere of the house and thoughtfully considering the needs and wants of the people you live with.

- Supporting yourself and either working or studying (not looking for work or deciding what you may sometime study).

- Taking responsibility for bad behaviour. When your failures are attributed to outside circumstances (even if those were contributing factors) it takes away your credibility to others.

Showing that you can effectively manage yours/other's money.

- Cleaning up after yourself and contributing to household tasks that need to be done.

- Recognizing the things that you do have to be thankful for.


- Not spending your spare time in your bedroom masturbating. And if you need a lock, be proactive and buy/install one yourself.

I agree with many points you made, but regular sleep/wake cycles, choosing whether or not to "contribute to the atmosphere of the house", and how he is choosing to spend his free time (masturbating or listening to music) are no indicator of adulthood, and are merely preferences...in fact, they look like preferences specifically of Fe.

That sounds a little harsh, but age is not what makes you an adult, or a man. The more responsibility and thoughtfulness you show, the more likely it is that others will find it less needful to check up on you or doubt your level of trustworthiness. You are 19, which is not that far past childhood to begin with. Your first venture has resulted in you quitting your job (blaming it on your messed up boss), misspending the money you made, and complaining that your mom won't let you listen to your music the way you want to whenever you want to. You right now are not even able to be in charge of your own moods/contentment/happiness. And if you want to wack off, has it not occurred to you that the bathroom has a locking door?

Again, I agree with you, but not being able to masturbate in one's own bedroom is a little out of line. I think children over the age of puberty (12/13) deserve SOME privacy, and in fact I've read where psychologists have recommended the same.


While it might be nice to have her be less intrusive, you have chosen to live there, my guess is that you are not paying rent, and it is her home. Therefore she and your dad have the right to decide what kind of environment that they would like in it.

On one hand I agree, but his mother's intrusiveness is insane, even for a fourteen or fifteen year old, much less a 19 year old. I can see her setting rules and limits, but not barging into his room whenever she feels like it for no apparent reason.

That's unhealthy Fe.
 

Tallulah

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I see 2 separate issues here. One is the entering without knocking and the other is the music and I think the ethics are different for each.

First off, your mother should knock. If you have made your wish for privacy clear, then it should be respected. I'm the mother of a 13 year old and we are making this adjustment right now. The idea of walking in on a grown young man without knocking is ridiculous to me. It indicates that she is not really understanding you as a 19 year old and it illustrates that you need to get your own place as soon as realistically possible so that you can live as the grown up you have a right to be.

On the other hand, your music is impacting others in your environment directly, so you have the same kind of issue as you would have if you had a roommate or a wife. If what you need is causing suffering for others -- some people have a need for quiet that is every bit as strong, and just as valid as your need for music -- then a compromise needs to be reached in one form or another. Reasonable adults generally would come to some agreement, most likely allowing for a sort of time share of when quiet or music (without headphones) was allowed.

Ultimately, though, you are at an age when you need to be able to live as an adult -- if that's not a paradigm shift your mom is ready to handle yet, then that means getting out on your own, as others have been saying on the thread. And I agree, too, that just having that goal ahead of you will ease the frustration for as long as you are at home.

This. Definitely two separate issues, and the music thing is something you have to deal with as a result of living with others, period. If you have roommates when you move out, you should still consider them when you blast your music. You have to negotiate that sort of thing. I definitely get wanting to play your music, though.

Can you suggest to her that SHE wear headphones and listen to her music while you listen to your music without them? For an hour, maybe. Then she would be hearing what she likes to hear, and you would be free for a bit.

This is a great suggestion for a compromise. If you could negotiate that, and then the rest of the time, listen to your music through high-quality headphones (I love my Bose ones), I think that would be reasonable for both of you. Maybe your Mom would even go in with you on a nice pair as part of the compromise, since she could use them, too. Another thought is to ask your Mom if you could have the house to yourself for an hour a couple of times a week. Then you'd have some House Alone Time (which everyone needs, I think), and you could crank your music while she is out running errands.

My personal favorite place to crank music is in the car--is that a possibility for you?
 

Fidelia

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I guess my perspective comes more as the baby of the family who has remained unmarried long enough to know my parents well as adults. I have gone through the experience of looking at (and firsthand experiencing) frustrating and immature behaviour (from older siblings) through the perspective of the parent.

My brother lived with us for six months when he was 19 (and my parents were paying for his education, giving him free rent, doing his laundry, cooking his meals and providing him with a car) and after having 4, then 5 children moved in with us with the whole family for extended lengths of time. On all occasions there was childish and inconsiderate behaviour and ever since, both he and his wife have gone on and on about how terrible it was to live at home again.

I have run out of patience. He felt put upon at 19 just to phone home and mention if he wasn't going to be around for meals. That's only what any spouse or other family member might be expected to do (especially when they are having their food made for them and are happy to have other chores done for them as well).

I see my nephew at 19 doing the same thing with his parents - playing video games all day, not working, staying up till 4 and 5 am, bugging the little kids and leaving squawking and mess in his wake. He's a good kid, but feels entitled and I see that kind of attitude becoming more and more common. I can't count how many stupid displays of temper I've seen from people and then they declare, "Well, I AM ___ years old", as if that's supposed to prove some kind of a conclusive point.

So, no, it's not that I think people should have to worry about their mother walking in on them changing in various states of undress etc. However, if they lived in another culture or even in my parents' generation, they wouldn't have even had the luxury of their own bedroom, and in this part of the world, we have things pretty good. I just think people often overlook what they have to be thankful about and focus instead on what their "rights" should be.
 
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Your mother is much more likely to treat you as an adult if you display characteristics that indicate adult responsibility and outlook:

- Sleeping/waking at regular hours so that you are prepared to go to work or be productive during the day.

- Contributing to the general atmosphere of the house and thoughtfully considering the needs and wants of the people you live with.

- Supporting yourself and either working or studying (not looking for work or deciding what you may sometime study).

- Taking responsibility for bad behaviour. When your failures are attributed to outside circumstances (even if those were contributing factors) it takes away your credibility to others.

- Showing that you can effectively manage yours/other's money.

- Cleaning up after yourself and contributing to household tasks that need to be done.

- Recognizing the things that you do have to be thankful for.

- Not spending your spare time in your bedroom masturbating. And if you need a lock, be proactive and buy/install one yourself.

That sounds a little harsh, but age is not what makes you an adult, or a man. The more responsibility and thoughtfulness you show, the more likely it is that others will find it less needful to check up on you or doubt your level of trustworthiness. You are 19, which is not that far past childhood to begin with. Your first venture has resulted in you quitting your job (blaming it on your messed up boss), misspending the money you made, and complaining that your mom won't let you listen to your music the way you want to whenever you want to. You right now are not even able to be in charge of your own moods/contentment/happiness. And if you want to wack off, has it not occurred to you that the bathroom has a locking door?

While it might be nice to have her be less intrusive, you have chosen to live there, my guess is that you are not paying rent, and it is her home. Therefore she and your dad have the right to decide what kind of environment that they would like in it.

I like the way you assume I violate all these rules. RTFT for crying out loud. I'm not even going to waste my time trying to explain myself to someone who clearly has their assumptions formed, with me as the antagonist. And I'm sure you've never made any mistakes during your lifetime? :happy0065:

For those of you who mention my employment status: I'm taking 20 credits this semester. My schedule is cluttered as hell, and it's been a turn-off to every business I've interviewed with. I hate not having a job, and I'm looking for part-time work, but my city's job market sucks. I've been tutoring another student for a bit of money, and been taking a couple website jobs. I'm doing what I can...

Thank you to all those who have replied with great advice. Fact of the matter is, I've survived this long, I'm pretty sure I can make it a bit longer.
 

pyramid

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9w1
p.s. I know what you mean about surprise flings of the door. Regardless of what you're doing, that feeling when someone flings open the door of your room is pretty awful. For me, it feels like my clothes just got ripped off me or some other violation.

hehe yes :yes: agreed. I am always gentle about opening the door to the room my boyfriend and I share. I think the one and only time I didn't for whatever reason, it really startled him. A door flying open for any reason causes a burst of energy in the room and likely :wtf:

Sounds like your mom has Issues like the rest of us, try to be sensitive to them if you can find a way. She sounds utterly neurotic in my opinion, and a nightmare to live with. These are things she can probably work on once you are out of the house. I agree with Jenocyde, control issues.

:headphne: I also endorse Mystical_Spaghetti's advice: indulge in some really nice cans (giant over-ear headphones). They will retain the audio quality it seems like your system manages and even a slightly acoustic or vibrational feel to them. You can get easily lost in the music this way (music is my life and I can't stand earbuds--they sound nice but I just can't get in the right mood with a weird hunk of plastic jammed in my ears.) Perhaps even look for a noise canceling variety so it will block out the nagging that is offered each day!
 
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