• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[MBTI General] NF and NT... drawn together like moth to flame

Ghost of the dead horse

filling some space
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
3,553
MBTI Type
ENTJ
I don't know any ENTJ's, but even the most balanced INTP's I've known overreact to emotion.
My membership in INTPc was cut short when one of the few posts I made got replies in the spirit of ..

"Aha! I gotcha! You had an emotion! haha! You made a post under the influence of emotion! You did! you did! I know you did! nee-neer... "

So I gathered that I need a bit more acceptance and maturity for emotions. If I had to be as impersonal as an encyclopedia in there, good bye ..
 

arcticangel02

To the top of the world
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
892
MBTI Type
eNFP
Beat me to it.

I think INTPs are good at critiquing the sweeping generalizations INFPs are prone to making. They are really good for exploring and testing new ideas with. They are open to the unconventional, yet rigorous in testing the logical consistency of ideas. Plus, they give INFPs permission to be nasty without being mean. That should probably be first, actually.

Oh my gosh, yes. I never realised that before, but that's actually a really valid point. Me and my INTP complain about things in ways that I wouldn't feel comfortable doing with anyone else... and it's okay. I'm not a horrible person for not being 110% nice all the time. :)

I tried explaining it to my ISFP mother once... she didn't get it.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
My membership in INTPc was cut short when one of the few posts I made got replies in the spirit of ..

"Aha! I gotcha! You had an emotion! haha! You made a post under the influence of emotion! You did! you did! I know you did! nee-neer... "

So I gathered that I need a bit more acceptance and maturity for emotions. If I had to be as impersonal as an encyclopedia in there, good bye ..

I didn't even get that far. I basically got the impression I wasn't welcome on my first post simply because I was an FJ. (Which is understandable, given that an INTP's inferior is Fe.) I think the INTP's that know me think better of me than that, though... because I usually just talk to them about the things they're interested in, and eventually when they have an emotional problem, they come to me interested in what I have to say. I'm not sure how it works out that way, though.
 

Priam

New member
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
272
MBTI Type
INTP
I didn't even get that far. I basically got the impression I wasn't welcome on my first post simply because I was an FJ. (Which is understandable, given that an INTP's inferior is Fe.) I think the INTP's that know me think better of me than that, though... because I usually just talk to them about the things they're interested in, and eventually when they have an emotional problem, they come to me interested in what I have to say. I'm not sure how it works out that way, though.

I think that there's a certain tendency for people, especially those in a minority, to embrace their negatives as some sort of "membership badge". Instead of being a trait to work with/around, it's proof that you belong!!!! OMG!!11!1

So, anyway, on the OP: I have to say that my best friend is an ENFP and we make a good team precisely because of the contrast. She drags me out of my comfort zone if I've been surfing Wikipedia for a day, while I give her space to just lounge and be without being on. I have an absolute acceptance of whatever she's feeling, and a certain introspective knowledge of what her emotions are when she's just overwhelmed by everything, while she doesn't let me snark my way through life. We both speak in esoteric assumptions, theories and passions, but the intent and result are both very different. In other words: it works!
 

INFPWoman

New member
Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Messages
10
MBTI Type
INFP
I am an INFP and the "love of my life" was an INTP. He is not the person I stayed with the longest but was with him several years, was intensely in love with him, and never really got over it. For a little while, at least, he was also intensely attached to me.

I was at first very confused by his seeming lack of internal emotions. I would search and pry and prod him to find out his feelings about any number of things and he eventually confessed to me that he didn't have very many feelings about anything, which I found very odd. I didn't know about the MBTI at the time.

At the same time I was fascinated by his ability to solve so many problems and understand so many things that I would have never figured out. It seemed like he could do or fix almost anything, and for the most part he was so sweet about it.

At first I think he enjoyed basking in my positive emotions for him; and in a way he appreciated my ability to help him at least figure out a little bit how he felt about things; but eventually he got bored with me and tired of my overemotionality.

I almost would think that INTP's were the type for me since I am so attracted to their NT, but, honestly I would fear that I would eventually be rejected for not be exiting enough and overly emotional, due to that experience.

I'm definately not representative of INFP's though, because I have other personality quirks involved.
 

armstrongvk12

New member
Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Messages
136
MBTI Type
ENxJ
-NFs make me feel human.

-I can be myself around NF's. ie. as weird as I want to be, especially with NFP's.

-Feel a stronger connection.

-Far better understanding. Lots of miscommunication with Sensors.

-Seems more like "we're in this together". With some S's I just feel different from them or left out.

-I dont get bored with NF's, we can have fun together. Get lost in our own world.

-For the most part, most are not overly concerned with materialistic nonsense. ie. brand names and labels

What's most frustrating is their lack of logic and common sense. They can also be manipulative and very hypocritical. Sometimes overly sensitive. But all THAT is what draws us NT's towards them even more. It's the complete opposite of how we are.

I COMPLETELY agree with your analysis. I have a male INFJ friend who is like my touchstone. He makes me feel like I am a human being. It seems like he is the only man that has ever really understood me..and accepts me exactly as I am. We had so much fun at a museum recently...I could see the other people in the museum...laughing as well.
I have SO much trouble communicating with people who are sensors...especially SJs....that I now try to avoid them. :D
 

armstrongvk12

New member
Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Messages
136
MBTI Type
ENxJ
I do think it's interesting that you said some of these differences draw you even more to NFs. I find that NTs and NFs are very complementary, filling in some of each others' shortcomings and being different enough to be fascinating while holding some of the most important factors in common. :) autumn

Funny you should mention this...I just made this comment to another friend recently regarding a male INFJ friend that I recently reconnected with after 30 years. We have SO much in common, yet in the areas where we are different...his strengths are my weaknesses...and vice versa.
 

surgery

New member
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
257
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
Four
What draws my INTPs friends and me together is that we understand and appreciate each other's weird imaginations that we usually hide from others.

nininini
kekekekek :)
 

autumn

New member
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
106
MBTI Type
eNFP
What draws my INTPs friends and me together is that we understand and appreciate each other's weird imaginations that we usually hide from others.

This too! We tend to understand each others' sense of humor and communicate clearly without having to explain everything. We tend to know when the other one is kidding, and to appreciate the way in which it was done.
 

sakuraba

Permabanned
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
371
MBTI Type
(y)
Enneagram
7w8
"I feel like I can be myself around you. Youre more like me. When I met you I thought you were someone that wouldnt judge me" - ENFJ explaining to ENTP why she dumped her ESTJ boyfriend for him
 

JivinJeffJones

New member
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
3,702
MBTI Type
INFP
"I feel like I can be myself around you. Youre more like me. When I met you I thought you were someone that wouldnt judge me" - ENFJ explaining to ENTP why she dumped her ESTJ boyfriend for him

That's probably more a comment on the great S/N divide.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
11,429
MBTI Type
eNFJ
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I could never see myself dating an ESTJ. I know an ENFJ who married one, and even though I love ESTJs for who they are, marriage would be out of the question. I'm not even attracted to them. Nor Js for that matter. Mano-y-mano with Js, but business isn't love. Not for me.
 

spirilis

Senior Membrane
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
2,687
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I could never see myself dating an ESTJ. I know an ENFJ who married one, and even though I love ESTJs for who they are, marriage would be out of the question. I'm not even attracted to them. Nor Js for that matter. Mano-y-mano with Js, but business isn't love. Not for me.

So you're attracted to the P-ness?
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
11,429
MBTI Type
eNFJ
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Yes. I have enough J-ness to go around as it is.
 

Sandy

New member
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
552
MBTI Type
INFP
I am an INFP and the "love of my life" was an INTP. He is not the person I stayed with the longest but was with him several years, was intensely in love with him, and never really got over it. For a little while, at least, he was also intensely attached to me.

I was at first very confused by his seeming lack of internal emotions. I would search and pry and prod him to find out his feelings about any number of things and he eventually confessed to me that he didn't have very many feelings about anything, which I found very odd. I didn't know about the MBTI at the time.

At the same time I was fascinated by his ability to solve so many problems and understand so many things that I would have never figured out. It seemed like he could do or fix almost anything, and for the most part he was so sweet about it.

At first I think he enjoyed basking in my positive emotions for him; and in a way he appreciated my ability to help him at least figure out a little bit how he felt about things; but eventually he got bored with me and tired of my overemotionality.

I almost would think that INTP's were the type for me since I am so attracted to their NT, but, honestly I would fear that I would eventually be rejected for not be exiting enough and overly emotional, due to that experience.

I'm definately not representative of INFP's though, because I have other personality quirks involved.

I'm dating an INTP right now -- he totally fascinates me! We have talked many-a-times about his lack of emotions, which really does intrigue me. I think I have enough emotions for the both of us. After 3-years, I am hoping that we'll stay the course.

BTW, welcome! :hi:
 

Apollonian

New member
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Messages
121
MBTI Type
INTJ
What does everyone make of the so called "NT-NF Spiral of Death"?

intjlist.org - Articles - The NT/NF Death Spiral

Stage 1: NT meets NF. NF is enamoured of NT, falls head over heels. NT is characteristically cautious, but interested. NFs are fun, after all.

Stage 2: NF appreciates and admires many characteristics of the NT and thus begins to behave more like an NT, perhaps even fooling the NT into thinking s/he is an NT. NT then relaxes, figuring s/he's with a kindred spirit, gets more comfortable with the relationship, starts acting like normal NT self, expecting to be understood.

Stage 3: NF feels NT cooling off and wonders what s/he is doing wrong. Tries to be more like NT to compensate. This doesn't feel right. NF gets needy and/or begins to consider is her/his duty to draw the NT out of her/his shell, encouraging the NT to express all those feelings buried deep inside. NT doesn't get it.

Stage 4: NT feels pressure from NFs emotional demands, needs distance to figure things out. (This might be only INTs. I'm not sure.) NF panics, becomes more needy. NT withdraws more...NF needs more...and so on and so on.

Stage 5: NF suddenly realizes that the reason things aren't working is that the NT is cold and unfeeling or not nurturing or some other horrible thing. Abandons NT without looking back. (This is especially likely with the NFPs.) NT is confused and (sometimes) relieved.

This seems to succintly describe an elusive, recurring dynamic in NT/NF relations. Presumably, this "Death Spiral" description was originally created by an INTJ.

Personally, I've seen this dynamic occur in the past, or at least had several occations where NF's suddenly start testing (erroneously) as NT's after being exposed to my rationalism. It seems the common response is that there is an element of maturity which changes this dynamic for better (mature) or worse (immature). However, setting maturity aside, do you think that there is something like this going on in the interaction of NF to NT personalities? Is it inevitable? Is there a way to circumvent or forestall this "Death Spiral"?
 

Priam

New member
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
272
MBTI Type
INTP
What does everyone make of the so called "NT-NF Spiral of Death"?

intjlist.org - Articles - The NT/NF Death Spiral



This seems to succintly describe an elusive, recurring dynamic in NT/NF relations. Presumably, this "Death Spiral" description was originally created by an INTJ.

Personally, I've seen this dynamic occur in the past, or at least had several occations where NF's suddenly start testing (erroneously) as NT's after being exposed to my rationalism. It seems the common response is that there is an element of maturity which changes this dynamic for better (mature) or worse (immature). However, setting maturity aside, do you think that there is something like this going on in the interaction of NF to NT personalities? Is it inevitable? Is there a way to circumvent or forestall this "Death Spiral"?

I think the primary factor in this, as you said, is one of simple self-awareness. If both parties in an NF/NT relationship are aware of their own tendencies, the drive to be something else to better please the other person is reduced. I do believe it's a recurring trend mostly on the NF side of things, because most NTs are actually likely to dig in their heels rather than give up logic for woolly emotions.

Is it necessarily a bad thing to learn new ways of processing information? Of course not. Every well-balanced Feeler should know how to think "rationally" in certain situations and every well-balanced Thinker should know how to sense the emotional undercurrents in themselves and others. The problem comes in when it turns from temporarily wearing another hat to The Talented Mr. Ripley. A healthy relationship cannot be built on a lie, which is what a person subsuming themselves to be more like another "wants" turns into.
 

cafe

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
9,827
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
What does everyone make of the so called "NT-NF Spiral of Death"?

intjlist.org - Articles - The NT/NF Death Spiral



This seems to succintly describe an elusive, recurring dynamic in NT/NF relations. Presumably, this "Death Spiral" description was originally created by an INTJ.

Personally, I've seen this dynamic occur in the past, or at least had several occations where NF's suddenly start testing (erroneously) as NT's after being exposed to my rationalism. It seems the common response is that there is an element of maturity which changes this dynamic for better (mature) or worse (immature). However, setting maturity aside, do you think that there is something like this going on in the interaction of NF to NT personalities? Is it inevitable? Is there a way to circumvent or forestall this "Death Spiral"?

Um. My NT was the head-over-heels one and I was the cautious-but-interested one. I never believed the level of his initial emotions was sustainable. I expected him too cool off and was kind of braced for it. It didn't make me not feel a little abandoned, but I didn't freak, either.

We had both done a fair bit of reading on relationships before we met, so we already knew about some of the pitfalls to watch out for. One of those things was the chase/run cycle. When he withdrew, I knew not to chase even though I felt sad and lonely. I kept myself busy with other interests the best I could and eventually he came round.

I hate the whole thing where people think they have to draw their partners out. It smacks of disrespect to me. A person should be free to share thoughts and feelings, but not poked and prodded and squeezed to force them out. If you do that you are probably not going to like what you get. Regardless of how one feels, they should treat their partner with respect and consideration. They are a partner, not a project. (This is in reference to normal relationship stuff, not gross violations like abuse or cheating.)
 
Top