True. I wasn't trying to generalize. I just started wondering about my current situation and my past "misfortunes" and I see a pattern here. I can't be in 100% if I don't have a feeling of closeness, and I think in the past I might have mistakenly thought that there was no such feeling on the other side and that has ended up with the relationship withering as I have started to doubt it. So, while I am not sure that this is a problem with N vs S, it is one possibility. I don't know about Js, the ones I'm talking about are xSFPs... I've never had the same problem with intuitives.
Originally Posted by visaisahero
That said, I think ALL relationships between ALL types can only develop certainty from time and shared experience.
Well, yes, but it would help me to trust the future more if I could learn how the sensors express this feeling (in the case they find it hard to do with words).
OK, I'm only about half way down the first link. Which for those of you who have not clicked on it yet, is a thread Jeffster started called What annoys you about non-sps.
I am laughing sooooo hard. I can completely see what you're saying. I have a really good ESFP friend and I know, even though she adores me, she completely feels this way.
So I'm all about being able to laugh at oneself. So yeah, we N's (especially those of us with dominant Intuition - ENFP, ENTP, INFJ, INTJ) have got to really annoy the crap out of you SPs on a regular basis.
I will say that I do enjoy having fun with SPs. Of all the SPs, ESTPs are the hardest for me to relate to. Hanging out with them is fun, but ENFPs and ESTPs shouldn't work on projects together. (At least that's my experience.) In that environment, ESTPs drive me NUTS. No understanding of the social nuance of a situation. No big picture, future thinking.
<----- Me partying with my SP friends.
Last edited by Esoteric Wench; 02-16-2010 at 10:37 AM.
For the sake of parity, let me include just like I did on the sister thread with a (slightly redacted) list of suggestions for Sensors from Dr. Robert Winer, a neurologist in the Philadelphia area, whose Website has some very insightful thoughts on temperament. (If you haven't seen this site, check it out here.)
Oooh, I haven't seen this site before. I like what I have seen so far. Thanks.
I'm interested in reading this thread because I have been butting heads with some sensors lately. I do seem to have particular trouble with STs (one in particular actually) even though I should be used to this by now having a ST father and sister. More than anything I just need to be patient with them and not so reactionary - try to listen and learn without automatically defending my methods. Its not easy for me though...
I think that a lot of the problems come with how varied the differences in the sorts of intelligences that sensors and intuitives have. And also with the general hobbies and things that sensors and intuitives like to think about. What about if a sensor was interested in the same things that you were? It would just simply be a different approach to a similar thing. Would make for interesting conversations.
I used to think that I was an N a lot of because of my interests. I grew up in an N predominant household; and all of my friends growing up were intuitives. I think that I generally value some of the intelligences that intuitives commonly value, and am interested in similar things to intuitives. So I tend to mesh well with intuitives because of this. A lot of intuitives think that I am one, just because of how well we mesh and talk. But I clearly lean more towards the realistic and practical side of things, sensor sorts of things. In real life this shows.
I think that a lot of these divides occur because of these differing valued intelligences etc, and not the preferences themselves.
Well, I have a question. How do you know that you are emotionally close to a sensor, as they prefer doing things and talking about things makes them anxious (in this case at least)? Is there difference between physical closeness (which seems effortless) and emotional closeness for sensors? Is the only way to know just to hang around as long as you become more certain that they actually do like you?
Nolla, I think this is one of the best questions posed on either this or the sister thread. And, as a fellow NF, let me tell you that I've wondered the same thing myself.
I would like to hear S's address Nolla's question of "Is there difference between physical closeness (which seems effortless) and emotional closeness for sensors?"
I don't know if this is the right answer, but this is what I've decided: if you go back to my OP, you'll notice that I'm explaining to my SO that I've learned how to correctly read him. I've learned that his actions are what I need to pay attention to. But at the end of the day, this is me translating his language into mine. And, I think that like idiomatic phrases in other languages are soooo difficult to understand, so is an S's actions for me to understand.
If you look up the definition of the phrase "idiomatic expression" you'll read that these are expressions whose meanings cannot be inferred from the meanings of the words that make it up. Likewise, I think of my ISTPs love for me as sort of an idiomatic expression in another language that I just have to learn by immersing myself in his language, not by translating it into my own. His love is greater than the sum of its component parts - which are his kind and caring actions. But how he gets there, I don't have a darn clue. But it is real nonetheless.
Every time I think I've got the understanding sensors thing down, I find myself hopelessly confused again.