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[MBTI General] Are You Sick of Being an N in an S world?

Seymour

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Actually that makes me wonder...I have an ESFJ at work who, whenever I make a mistake or something changes in the routine, will leave me written instructions step by step on what needs to be done that day, including the stuff i've been doing forever. And, she'll call me to check that 'everything went ok'. Drives me mental, coz it makes me feel like a 5-year old, and I sometimes wonder if she's patronizing me on purpose but this thread kinda sheds new light on that...

That can totally be my reaction, too. I feel like saying "so do you think I'm stupid, or just incompetent?" And then hopefully some type-awareness kicks in and I find some understanding and patience.

Sometimes, though, it can become a downward spiral in which the sensor gets more detailed and explicit (because clearly they didn't go into enough explicit detail the first time, hence your mistake), and the intuitive gets more exasperated and less likely to take in information (because clearly the sensor thinks you are an idiot). It's not pretty.
 

Totenkindly

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LL, I don't know your culture, so when you say "school," do you mean adults, or else kids in middle/high school? (i.e., grades 6-12 here in the US)?

This behavior you describe is not just an S vs. N thing, I see it regularly just with kids in general. Two of my kids are N and they STILL do this all the time. Lots of kids of any type still need things spelled out to them.

Sometimes, though, it can downward spiral in which the sensor gets more detailed and explicit (because clearly they didn't go into enough explicit detail the first time, hence your mistake), and the intuitive gets more exasperated and less likely to take in information (because clearly the sensor thinks you are an idiot). It's not pretty.

:rofl1:

Been there.
Done that.
Still have the scars.
(and the jail time).

...uh, j/k.
 

Esoteric Wench

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Yay, another "N hates living in S space" thread! :smile: :newwink:

I love it! :nice:

I think the communication gap is worse for INFJs / INTJs / ENFPs / ENTPs who have dominant Intuition (be it extraverted or introverted). Likewise, ESFPs, ESTPs, ISFJs, and ISTJs have dominant Sensing. My experience is that these types are bothered most by my N-ness. (I don't think I need to mention that the way ISFJs/ISTJs drive ENFPs/ENTPs nuts is legendary in MBTI forums.)

While dealing with Ss does sometimes drive me nuts, I've come to appreciate the limits of my N-ness. Sometimes I don't see details that my S friends do. Sometimes I miss this moment because I'm thinking about the future or past. I do jump around in my conversations and am completely comfortable blurting out random thoughts as they occur to me. This one really drives Ss nuts, btw. :devil:

I feel like I'm finally understanding how balance in using our cognitive functions is very important. I begrudgingly admit that I do need to strengthen my S muscles a bit. (Even though I still feel very lucky being an N.)
 

Little Linguist

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Oh, so am I. Once you know how to deal with various groups, it's all good. It's just kind of frustrating when you don't know WHY the shit ain't happening. And you think, "God <beepety beep>. What the <bbbbbbbbeeeeeeeeeeeeepppp> is going on here and why the <beeeeep> don't they get it?"

Once you modify your behavior and everything is cool beans, it's all good.

Nowadays, I'm experienced enough in teaching that I have something for everyone, and it works brilliantly.

In fact, I never had trouble with higher-level students or professionals. Part of the problem also occurs when concrete-oriented people are lazy and don't give a rat's fat behind, and then you have to boil it down for them to the point where they can't act like a dumb rat.

Smart Ss (and yeah, there are a hell of a lot of them) are freaking awesome because you LEARN so MUCH from them. Yet they have this down-to-earth attitude that is so freaking cool.

Bottom line: I find it more difficult dealing with freaking STUPID, LAZY people than dealing with SP or SJ or NT or NF or whatever.
 
P

Phantonym

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I don't really pay attention to the rest of the world, so I'm a-okay.

Hahaha. Yes! Me too.

I usually get test results around 55/45% N/S, so I mostly feel that I don't really belong to either side but I'm capable of adjusting and understanding both sides fairly well and make myself understood as well without frustration. Besides, you can only get frustrated when you let yourself get frustrated.
 

Little Linguist

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Hahaha. Yes! Me too.

I usually get test results around 55/45% N/S, so I mostly feel that I don't really belong to either side but I'm capable of adjusting and understanding both sides fairly well and make myself understood as well without frustration. Besides, you can only get frustrated when you let yourself get frustrated.

That's awesome! :) Seriously.
 
S

Sniffles

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Hahaha. Yes! Me too.

I usually get test results around 55/45% N/S, so I mostly feel that I don't really belong to either side but I'm capable of adjusting and understanding both sides fairly well and make myself understood as well without frustration. Besides, you can only get frustrated when you let yourself get frustrated.

This is pretty much the same for me. I'm clearly an N, but yet I generally have no problems dealing with Sensors for the most part. And like LL, I generally find stupid people of ANY type more annoying than this or that type per se.
 

sleepy

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This
Today is part of that long-awaited future. Watch out that you don't miss it.
Next year comes as a result of what you do today. That's the magical realisation that can be oh so elusive, especially for Ns.

If one decides to dig ones own grave, one should at least smile about it. Or else it's a bit backwards imo.
 

Esoteric Wench

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Well, I'd rather have the other person adapt to my communication style, rather than the reverse. (I haven't had many miscommunication issues in my life, though).

I think it's far more difficult for an S to adapt to an N than vice versa.

Up until 1.5 years ago, I would have said the same thing about how I didn't have many miscommunication issues in my life. I'm an ENFP after all. Hell, I can talk to anybody. I worked in Marketing Communications for 15 years. I'm a freelance writer. I'm an awesome communicator.

But I think I've learned that oftentimes while I'm having a conversation with an S and feel like there is a successful communication, there isn't. Part of this realization comes from learning how to read Ss better.

Here's a great example: As an NF I talk a lot about Love with a capital L. This is the kind of love that the angels sing about. That you stand upon a mountaintop and proclaim to the world. That poets write about. This is love in its conceptual form. And being able to articulate one’s feelings is really important for this kind of love. And, it's really important for me to connect with whomever I'm dating on this level.

There was a time in my life that I would have said this kind of love was the only real kind of love there was…. That is Real with a capital R. And, I would have been ready to tell any S that there was something wrong with them just because they couldn’t express their feelings in the way I do. I might have accused them of being unable to dig deep into their feelings…. Sort of like they had some emotional block. I might even have gently encouraged them to go to therapy to help them get in touch with their feelings and get unblocked.

I’ve since come to understand that I was looking at things the wrong way. I was assuming that everyone thought like me. This was such a fundamental assumption for me that it had never even occurred to me that there was another way to think about love.

My current ISTP boyfriend exudes love, but he's never declared it in a heartfelt statement like an INFJ might. Nonetheless, he shows me he loves me everyday in dozens of little ways. Like when he gave me his jacket to keep me warm last night. Like when he made me omelets for breakfast yesterday. Like when he remembered how I said I didn’t like the towels folded in a certain way and he folded them differently because he thought this would please me. These are all acts of love. This is love in its tangible form. And, this is the way Ss express it. There is nothing wrong with this.

It just amazes me that Ss can go about their lives and not know "the reason" they do things or articulate their thoughts conceptually. I always know the reason for my actions and seek the meaning in everything I do. (Read: evaluate everything from the big picture perspective.) But for Ss actions do not necessarily (or even usually) have Meaning with a capital M. And, these are valid choices for Ss. And, I have grown to respect this... even though I don't fully understand it.
 

Litvyak

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Well, I'd rather have the other person adapt to my communication style, rather than the reverse.

I think it's more or less a mutual thing. Plus, it's not only about communication: you have to "tune in" to your partners cognitive functioning to maximize efficiency.

I don't really pay attention to the rest of the world

Not possible. You're just trying to make it easier for yourself with such half-truths.

[EDIT]
 

Parrish

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I`ve been thinking about these miscommunications the past few days, especially regarding my best friend who happens to be an ESTJ.
Now if I ask her how her day was I have to be prepared for an incredibly detailed step-by-step narration. Honestly, it`s quite hard to stay focused. When in turn she asks me how my day was I usually sum it up with the overall feeling I had of the day, like it was okay, nothing special, etc. I don`t see the point in telling her all the unneccessary details. But she does get credit for putting up with my constant interruptions, sarcastic remarks and sudden memory trips.:yes: Most of the time I`m in the listening role, however if there`s sth troubling me, she`ll let me vent until I get it all out. She won`t try to comfort me or offer me useless advice, she`ll just be there and not fall asleep while I talk:cheese: That`s really appreciated.

When I talk to my ENTP friend, there aren`t any problems in communication; if I bounce to another thread of thought, he can keep up and go with the flow. The silences in-between don`t feel strained. I feel less exhausted even though I usually talk more. It`s refreshing:laugh:

When it comes to friendships, the S or N aren`t to restricting, but for a romantic relationship, I don`t think it would work out with an S in the long run. I want someone who will understand me like I really am, not just my top layer.
 

Totenkindly

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It just amazes me that Ss can go about their lives and not know "the reason" they do things or articulate their thoughts conceptually. I always know the reason for my actions and seek the meaning in everything I do. (Read: evaluate everything from the big picture perspective.) But for Ss actions do not necessarily (or even usually) have Meaning with a capital M. And, these are valid choices for Ss. And, I have grown to respect this... even though I don't fully understand it. <purple added>

Also, this is not true. You have to learn to respect other perspectives of life.

It looks like she did, to me.
 

Snow Turtle

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My current ISTP boyfriend exudes love, but he's never declared it in a heartfelt statement like an INFJ might. Nonetheless, he shows me he loves me everyday in dozens of little ways. Like when he gave me his jacket to keep me warm last night. Like when he made me omelets for breakfast yesterday. Like when he remembered how I said I didn’t like the towels folded in a certain way and he folded them differently because he thought this would please me. These are all acts of love. This is love in its tangible form. And, this is the way Ss express it. There is nothing wrong with this.

There's a book dedicated to this called the 5 Love Languages. While it seems true that SJs will prefer acts of services as their top 3. It could be based on a completely off-base stereotype.

It just amazes me that Ss can go about their lives and not know "the reason" they do things or articulate their thoughts conceptually. I always know the reason for my actions and seek the meaning in everything I do. (Read: evaluate everything from the big picture perspective.) But for Ss actions do not necessarily (or even usually) have Meaning with a capital M. And, these are valid choices for Ss. And, I have grown to respect this... even though I don't fully understand it.

Good. I suggest you don't understand it since it's not really true at all. For many people (including the sensors), there is a big picture understanding, it's the understanding that there is no real meaning to life (assuming non-religious) and thus it becomes redundant to constantly search for some form of meaning to attach their lives to. It's definitely a practical approach to life, to be more content with just enjoying the moment and living life (this is inclusive of those who enjoy thinking for no real reason than because it caught their attention).
 

fill

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Yes and no.

I believe the biggest factor in my case is maturity. I can handle immaturity with Ns because I understand it, but with S types (more-so SJs), I have a hard time making sense of. I really like SPs. They're really fun people to be around - and I'm okay with ISxJs, but I really feel they don't get along with me. ESxJs are sometimes vice versa: I don't really get along with them, but they like me.

The part I get frustrated with is the rejection of change. I'm no idealist, but I do love to mix things up in every sense and mindset to find something different - I thrive on this notion; however, S types tend to give me volatile responses to it, even if the current state of something remains flawed.
 

Litvyak

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Yeah, didn't notice that last statement, sorry. The "S folks can't articulate their thoughts conceptually"-stuff seems a little stupid though.
 

Totenkindly

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Yeah, didn't notice that last statement, sorry. The "S folks can't articulate their thoughts conceptually"-stuff seems a little stupid though.

I tend to read "gist" in cases like this, so looking at the whole paragraph, I came away with her main point and saw her openness. But yeah, I can see why that line evoked what it did.
 

Lauren Ashley

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Not possible. You're just trying to make it easier for yourself with such half-truths.

How is it not possible? I keep to myself, don't really engage with the rest of the world, have no interest in what they are doing. I live in my own world and only interact on a need to do basis. So it's very possible. Notice the qualifier "really," meaning "not much."
 

Little Linguist

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LL, I don't know your culture, so when you say "school," do you mean adults, or else kids in middle/high school? (i.e., grades 6-12 here in the US)?

This behavior you describe is not just an S vs. N thing, I see it regularly just with kids in general. Two of my kids are N and they STILL do this all the time. Lots of kids of any type still need things spelled out to them.

School = 5-13th grade

But generally, I mean lower-level school. Not Gymnasium (college/uni prep) or higher education

Interesting. I wonder why some kids need that. Can't really relate. If someone gives me a vague idea of something, I can take it, run with it, and bring back a beautiful, shiny, cool thing. You know?

It took me a while to realize that a lot of people do not like that freedom. They want or even NEED to be told what to do every step of the way.

I wonder why that is. Really. If I could understand the underlying reason, it wouldn't frustrate me as much.
 

Totenkindly

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It took me a while to realize that a lot of people do not like that freedom. They want or even NEED to be told what to do every step of the way.
That part is true.

I wonder why that is. Really. If I could understand the underlying reason, it wouldn't frustrate me as much.

I don't experience it as much, but I can intellectualize it:

Boundaries are safe.
Open space, with an uncertainty of what to do next, is terrifying

Imagine being on the edge of a cliff and being afraid of heights, and looking into miles of air.

For someone who desperately needs closure, freedom might cause the same terror.
 

Esoteric Wench

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For many people (including the sensors), there is a big picture understanding, it's the understanding that there is no real meaning to life (assuming non-religious) and thus it becomes redundant to constantly search for some form of meaning to attach their lives to. It's definitely a practical approach to life, to be more content with just enjoying the moment and living life (this is inclusive of those who enjoy thinking for no real reason than because it caught their attention).

Well maybe it's just in the way they articulate it. I will have to say, for an S, your post sounds very conceptual. Most Ss I know couldn't... or at least wouldn't... write something like this.

Perhaps one of the main issues here is balance between S and N. I'm super N. Maybe the blind spot is mostly my own. But I will say that I've had several S friends (especially ESFPs and ESTPs) who don't seem to be able to articulate why they do things or the meaning behind their actions.

Example #1
Me: "So why did you go to chef school?"
ESFP: "I don't know. Just seemed like the thing to do. I thought it'd be fun."
Me: "But why? You just dropped everything for a new career. You must have had a pretty good reason."
ESFP: "Nah... I just did it? No reason. Just wanted a change."
Me: [Pulls my hair out.]

Example #2
Me: "So what does it matter that you've been graded 'Twitter Elite' by Twittergrader.com?
ESTP: "Well I'm not just elite. I'm number one in our area."
Me: "Yeah, but who cares. It's just a formula and not a very good one at that. It doesn't mean you're really elite in anyway. So I don't get it."
ESTP: "Well I have 5K people following me on Twitter and I had over 250 tweets yesterday."
Me: "Yeah, but so what? You don't have any meaningful conversation with your followers. It seems like a meaningless label to me, and I'm baffled at why you're so excited to acquire it."
ESTP: "Why does everything have to have meaning? It just is what it is."
Me: (Thinks to herself, "What an idiot.")

This may not be all Ss, but it's a lot of them. Or at least that's how it feels to me.
 
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