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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepy View Post
    Yea, that's the catch. You can't have it both ways....that...would not...be...fair!!!

    Or even, who is going to take care of the children? Someone got to do it.

    I know. I was being facetious there.

    The thing is, there are intuitives, and then there are INTUITIVES. Unfortunately for me, I am one of the latter, and I test as 100% N on every single test I take including the professional one I took for a class in college.


    Deep inside my closet is an "ESTJ business suit" that I can dust off, and put on every now and then (assuming the moths of my inner child didn't eat too much out of it).

    In fact, I can wear the "ESTJ suit" so well, that one of my managers wanted to make me a supervisor within a month after I started a new job, but little did she know how heavy that darn "suit" was for me to carry around all day.

    So while we can fit into the role expected of us, it just takes a LOT more effort. This is why we flock to positions at the university, because we can be comfortable inside the ivory tower. I've always noticed how a lot of my physics professors seem as if they would be painfully awkward or even downright incompetent in any other setting outside of the university
    The purple sun won't heal my purple bruises :ouch:

  2. #72
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Essentially any topic can be made to go more indepth. Are intuitives here really against discussing tangible things or is this just influence from 'Type'? Considering that many NFs (At least my IFJ peers) appear to be motivated by understanding people themselves. This whole distinction between 'tangible' and 'intangible' doesn't really make much sense considering that all ideas must have an origin in something physical, even if it's been bounced off some other concept.

    Regardless, it doesn't seem particular fair to attribute small talk to being a sensor based issue. Considering we're dealing with a large amount of the population, there's bound to be a greater chance of encountering an individual that indulges in such activities and tests as sensors. Not to mention, that small talk is usually occurs between two people who aren't comfortable with each other. Given that intuitives identify with other intuitives, the perceived similarity will have an effect on establishing deeper grounds from the start than other friendships. An anology of this would be ethnic minorities within the UK who find that they are able to skip the social pleasentries when they discover others like them. Sensors, who identify/click with other sensors are more likely to skip this process, otherwise they're more keen on keeping things at a superficial surface interaction. I'm stating the obvious now, but it's not like all sensors will click with each other and I know for certain that most of my friends (7+ sensors) all agree with me that they hate talking about what they perceive as small talk.

    Bottomline: If the interaction is shallow (as opposed to detailed - I'll admit that might be an annoying factor in conversations) then it just means that a connection hasn't really been formed. Then again, perhaps what it is perceived as small talk isn't really small talk at all to the speaker themselves, it's totally possible to have completely different interests and different motivations for having conversations. For example: I like to learn things when interacting with other people/reading forums. Where as others are just more happy to interact casually offering no real conversation topics, in that sense, the social prescence takes higher priority.

    The above makes me think of the amount of times when people interact with their friends, occasionally resorting to topics that is often deemed as 'small talk' and silence. Unless of course intuitives here, are going to claim that their conversations with friends never involve the more 'mundane' life? In which case I'll take my words back.
    I hate what's deemed as small talk. For me, it's a means to an end, a way to establish a connection to someone unfamiliar. Otherwise, I should have little to none with friend or family. Granted, if my mom wants to discuss the record snowfall we got in depth, it's not really small talk at that point, correct?

    I had a girlfriend who I deemed as incapable of anything but small talk. It wasn't that; I finally concluded that she's not one to go deep. She was more coverage over depth.

    It all depends on the person, really.

  3. #73
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    I think the communication gap is worse for INFJs / INTJs / ENFPs / ENTPs who have dominant Intuition (be it extraverted or introverted). Likewise, ESFPs, ESTPs, ISFJs, and ISTJs have dominant Sensing. My experience is that these types are bothered most by my N-ness. (I don't think I need to mention that the way ISFJs/ISTJs drive ENFPs/ENTPs nuts is legendary in MBTI forums.)
    Honestly I've never had anyone 'bothered' by my N-ness. It's never been pushed back at me, in other words, although yes, I myself have sometimes felt extremely alone in this world.

    Perhaps it's my Fe (although I'm starting to hate bringing cognitive functions into things), but I adjust my communication based on who I'm speaking with. And: I don't have a problem doing that!! That's part of who I am, I don't judge the other person if I have to speak to them in a certain way whereas I speak with my friends in another way, and I'm not resentful because I'm not able to be my N self in my full glory, lol...big deal. They're them, I'm me. Everyone's different. It's really as simple as that. [Also, yeah, I'm quite an introvert, so I do a lot of self-monitoring and all of that, based on who I'm with....so I could see how an Extroverted Intuitive might have the N-ness pushed back in their face, or get weird looks, a lot more]

    Yeah, when I was younger I often felt really alone and bothered by the fact that I couldn't/didn't relate to most people I came into contact with, and I was definitely more jaded against a high % of my peers - but I guess now - maybe like Lauren Ashley, who said she didn't pay attention and was therefore a-ok - I just don't focus my energies or thoughts **deeply** on things that really bother me, or people I don't get along with as well, and I choose to focus all of it on positive relationships and things in my life.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplesunset View Post
    The thing is, there are intuitives, and then there are INTUITIVES. Unfortunately for me, I am one of the latter, and I test as 100% N on every single test I take including the professional one I took for a class in college.
    I'm glad you are still alive...

    Quote Originally Posted by purplesunset View Post
    So while we can fit into the role expected of us, it just takes a LOT more effort. This is why we flock to positions at the university, because we can be comfortable inside the ivory tower. I've always noticed how a lot of my physics professors seem as if they would be painfully awkward or even downright incompetent in any other setting outside of the university
    You sure not universities are packed with sensors? I did not get the impression that it was any different then any other setting. Sure, you got the odd ball. But most was the same, get an education, find a job, find love, buy a house, become a total slave to the system, then die before you know what really happened.

    Depressing, sure, but it is what it is.

    Isn't it the same everywhere?

  5. #75
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepy View Post
    I'm glad you are still alive...


    You sure not universities are packed with sensors? I did not get the impression that it was any different then any other setting. Sure, you got the odd ball. But most was the same, get an education, find a job, find love, buy a house, become a total slave to the system, then die before you know what really happened.

    Depressing, sure, but it is what it is.

    Isn't it the same everywhere?
    There are a lot of sensor professors in academia..... I think college is a place of 'higher learning', and that's a breeding ground for intuition. But you have some subject matter experts who are definitely sensors.

  6. #76
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Perhaps it's my Fe (although I'm starting to hate bringing cognitive functions into things), but I adjust my communication based on who I'm speaking with. And: I don't have a problem doing that!! That's part of who I am, I don't judge the other person if I have to speak to them in a certain way whereas I speak with my friends in another way, and I'm not resentful because I'm not able to be my N self in my full glory, lol...big deal. They're them, I'm me. Everyone's different. It's really as simple as that.
    Well said.

    I have to say for the 'Fe' part, I think there's a lot to it. For any kind of 'difference' you have that could make you not gel as well in a group, things like Fe helps. What also helps is to be of the same socio/economic status, come from the same religious background, etc. But, those are things you can't really change in the moment. What you can affect are your actions.

    Fe - or moving away from functions to *actions* - really just being hospitable/warm/outgoing etc. is socially valued and approved of (at least in North America?) and it can put others at ease so I think it does help smooth over or equalize other potential differences that could be a source of tension. It basically means you have to make (more) effort to normalize relations.

    I still think "being out of it" and "space cadet" or "out there" are the biggest interpersonal criticisms that can be levelled against an "N" in an "S" world but otherwise I don't quite understand the N/S disconnect people mention on the forum.

    I also think being NP exacerbates any "N/S friction" though. I know I was always considered a freak, the weird kid, strange, probable "lesbian" (LOL that's what strange women are often called regardless of actual sexual orientation) etc. which mellowed out to 'alternachick' all throughout school up to college graduation and I'm sure other NPs can relate. It was not something I necessarily wanted for myself or tried to achieve, that was the way I was labelled. But I don't think purely "N" was the cause of that...
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  7. #77
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Funny,

    My INTJ boy hit me up, and asked me what the weather was, because in ATL it snowed 4 inches. While weather is considered small talk, there was a purpose behind his question.

    I'm sure with 4 inches, ATL was a shut down state of emergency!

  8. #78
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    o yes... i relate to OP...........veeeeeeery much.

    (sorry, long off topic rant here... needed this )

    bad thing is it didnt improve since i found out about MBTI and I thought it will improve. Now I have flashes of future.. or unexpected insights that things will NEVER REALLY change... before MBTI at least i thought it's just current situation, wrong people, i am the problem..etc.

    i'm tortured for being me my whole life. i live with 2 ISTJs, my sister and mother -they cant even grasp what's like to be me except for them being me is being insane and whatnot.
    when i read stuff my mom says "you're again doing nothing"

    i am extremely forgetful and clumpsy and i break each thing i have more than 3 days (i never really fucked up more expensive stuff but things like headphones, cups, clothes i just forget and break or something... so they call me retarded.. and then i'm even more distressed and clumsy so i can pay attention to details even less.
    i'm sure if i am living alone or with someone more similar that i'd be more tidy and organized.
    also,my mom considers having any emotions as being weak, or uneccessary thing..

    anyway, all that at home and then you count in cultural messages -it's tempting to stay sane.


    thing is nobody forces my mom (or other SJs) to read intellectual papers, think in abstract terms, produce art, nobody is saying they are defective if they dont know how to do it..
    but if you're not good with housekeeping stuff, or baking cakes... you're defective.

    sometimes i dont view it this black but when you add up to all of neg. messages it turns out like this.

  9. #79
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    I'm so glad I live in an "S world". I don't even know what an "N world" would look like, but if it's an "NFP" world nothing would ever get done and I couldn't mooch off of the SJs.

    Most of my family are sensors but I don't really feel different from them, besides my interests and core processor. Before MBTI I actually felt like a human being and not an INTUITIVE.

  10. #80
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adoamros View Post
    I'm so glad I live in an "S world". I don't even know what an "N world" would look like, but if it's an "NFP" world nothing would ever get done and I couldn't mooch off of the SJs.

    Most of my family are sensors but I don't really feel different from them, besides my interests and core processor. Before MBTI I actually felt like a human being and not an INTUITIVE.
    good point... but situation gets bit more complicated when S people in your family want you to change to S.

    i wouldnt want nfp world either. but less like this one for sure

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