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  1. #11
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Well, I'd rather have the other person adapt to my communication style, rather than the reverse. (I haven't had many miscommunication issues in my life, though).
    isn't that kind of single minded?
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  2. #12
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    It's every thread.

    This forum could just as easily be named "N hates living in S space central".
    That's a little wordy, don't you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Well, I'd rather have the other person adapt to my communication style, rather than the reverse. (I haven't had many miscommunication issues in my life, though).
    That's funny. I'm the exact opposite, it's hard for me NOT to step into the other person's communication style. (And s ometimes I have to fight it, because I feel like I'm compromising myself.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #13
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Of-Despair View Post
    isn't that kind of single minded?
    Ehhh perhaps, but I feel better this way I'm lucky that around most of my friends, since childhood, I don't/didn't have to change myself at all, so I suppose I got used to it and now I'm unwilling to change.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  4. #14
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Aren't ENTJS at an advantage with this though? Tertiary Se would simplify stuff somewhat, no? Make it easier to communicate?

    Edit: scratch that, that would mean INFPs with their tertiary Si would have that same advantage..nvm
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  5. #15
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
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    I have "S" preference and I would not just say "look at that pretty house" and want only "yes, it's pretty" as a response. That is far too vague. Yes, I would love to hear all about the architecture and the history of the house... but I also like to talk about the color of the house, the windows, etc., etc.
    Every sensor is different. So, fortunately, if one annoys the heck out you, you'll find another who is a lot more fun and interesting to have as a companion (just as, I am sure that not all intuitives are clueless about their environment and walking into walls).
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  6. #16
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yay, another "N hates living in S space" thread!

    ... I'm dealing with a lot of crap right now from my all-S family, so yeah... just tired of it. I see their side as valid, something that needs to be considered, but they consistently fail to see the other options that I also need to consider, so I seem to be the perpetual whipping child now that I do my own thang and don't kowtow to their desires.

    You want advice on how to deal with S's?
    It's easy to get frustrated and pissed with them.
    Remember that they also get frustrated and pissed with us.

    Just one big example here: My MIL (ISFJ) once tried to explain basic directions to me, using a highway map. I had figured out all the directions before she was halfway done and knew just where I was going. She finished... then started repeating. i waited patiently. She finished... then started repeating a third time. I finally had to stop her and tell her that I was fine and knew where I was going, totally. She had trouble understanding I was okay because to her, learning a task or dealing with something meant going through it linearly, step by step, memorizing the details; and it also meant me showing her literally that I understood (by repeating her directions TO her); and potentially even writing them down to take with me!

    Really strong S types (esp J's) have a hard time grasping N competence (especially P's). It's invisible to them. They can't see it. You have to give cues and reassure them that you're on target and know what you're doing. If not, you either lose them... and you could even draw a lot of judgment in situations that are morally volatile. S needs far more tangibility than N does; to many S's, we look like we're stepping out on air or being frivolous.
    I have a coworker who I think was a natural strong S and was educated in China (which seems to strongly emphasize an S-style in its education system). She is extremely conscientious, organized and thorough, but I find her utterly exhausting to work with. She has to go over things step-by-step multiple times, and THEN she gets the big picture.

    I tend to leap ahead to the big picture (however inaccurately), and then modify based on additional information. I find her frustrating to work with because she really needs to the step-by-step approach. Plus, when she gets lost she often doesn't know where she got lost, which means starting over with the step-by-step again even more slowly, confirming each step of the way.

    Of course, I'm much more likely to get details wrong or skip over some important detail because I'm assuming my understanding is correct.

    It's a good reminder for me on how different people can be, despite there being some frustration on both sides.

  7. #17
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Actually that makes me wonder...I have an ESFJ at work who, whenever I make a mistake or something changes in the routine, will leave me written instructions step by step on what needs to be done that day, including the stuff i've been doing forever. And, she'll call me to check that 'everything went ok'. Drives me mental, coz it makes me feel like a 5-year old, and I sometimes wonder if she's patronizing me on purpose but this thread kinda sheds new light on that...
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  8. #18
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    Of course, I'm much more likely to get details wrong or skip over some important detail because I'm assuming my understanding is correct.
    definitely happens.

    In our favor, we recover quickly -- we make the change, then proceed from there.

    But in the S's favor, they are more careful and double-check things, so they sometimes get there later but are less apt to make the mistake in the first place.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #19
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yay, another "N hates living in S space" thread!

    ... I'm dealing with a lot of crap right now from my all-S family, so yeah... just tired of it. I see their side as valid, something that needs to be considered, but they consistently fail to see the other options that I also need to consider, so I seem to be the perpetual whipping child now that I do my own thang and don't kowtow to their desires.

    You want advice on how to deal with S's?
    It's easy to get frustrated and pissed with them.
    Remember that they also get frustrated and pissed with us.

    Just one big example here: My MIL (ISFJ) once tried to explain basic directions to me, using a highway map. I had figured out all the directions before she was halfway done and knew just where I was going. She finished... then started repeating. i waited patiently. She finished... then started repeating a third time. I finally had to stop her and tell her that I was fine and knew where I was going, totally. She had trouble understanding I was okay because to her, learning a task or dealing with something meant going through it linearly, step by step, memorizing the details; and it also meant me showing her literally that I understood (by repeating her directions TO her); and potentially even writing them down to take with me!

    Really strong S types (esp J's) have a hard time grasping N competence (especially P's). It's invisible to them. They can't see it. You have to give cues and reassure them that you're on target and know what you're doing. If not, you either lose them... and you could even draw a lot of judgment in situations that are morally volatile. S needs far more tangibility than N does; to many S's, we look like we're stepping out on air or being frivolous.
    Yes, Jennifer, ex-flipping-actly. I mean seriously. I found that quite a bit with my teaching - not at university, really, but at SCHOOL. At least initially.

    Vocational school is replete with Ss.

    For example: I will globally explain something in two sentences, and then give people a free hand to deal with the subject matter creatively.

    Blank stares.

    So I repeat what I mean, because I remember, "Ohhhh yeah, these guys like concrete directions."

    Blank stares.

    So I say what I mean AGAIN in easier words because I remember, "Ohhhh yeah, these guys are dumb asses."

    Blank stares.

    Now I start to get pissed inside, but I know I cannot show it because I have to be patient and remember thinking, "Fuck, why can't they be like the marketing people? Or the booksellers? Or the Fachabiturienten?"

    Then, step by step I say what I want three ferking times and then say, "Do you understand?"

    Blank stares.

    (Turn my face to the blackboard to hide my expression because I'm about ready to kill someone.)

    "Okay, here are the directions:" (Writes on board)

    "a. Read
    "b. Do exercises
    "c. Report back

    Got it?"

    "Ohhhhhhhhhh....."

    EDIT: Disclaimer: Not all Ss are like this. Just the dumb ones.

    No one at university does that, even the Ss. In fact, some university Ss are really brilliant and have such a warehouse of information that I'm like, "Whooooooooaaaaaaaaaa".
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  10. #20
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    I don't really pay attention to the rest of the world, so I'm a-okay.

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