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  1. #151
    Senior Member StrappingYoungLad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Uh..... I don't think this appropriate forum to debate the scientific method, but after reading several studies in scientific journals, I assure you that the researchers were well-trained and knew how to try to minimize such skewing of the data.

    Plus, I've gotta remind you that almost no S is going to get a Ph.D. in Philosophy and dedicate their life to teaching it.

    And while I believe in going where the chase leads me, it's just common sense (at least for me) who was a graduate student and has interacted with a gazillion academics. Publishing in journals, speaking at conferences, developing new and innovative theories.... this has got N written all over it.
    Sorry, I missed that in your post. All I saw was a link to a to a site where you have to pay for the test.

  2. #152
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    This thread...

    *adds it to the list of unintentional S-bashing threads*

  3. #153
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Indeed ... We need an NT in here ... *invite*
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  4. #154
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    This thread...

    *adds it to the list of unintentional S-bashing threads*
    Well yeah, the list of strategies for dealing with Ss makes them sound like retarded 8 year olds. It's kinda silly.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #155
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Plus, I've gotta remind you that almost no S is going to get a Ph.D. in Philosophy and dedicate their life to teaching it.
    An admin and founder of one of the larger philosophy sites online is an ISTP with degrees in philosophy. I know it's just a random fact, but sometimes I wonder. An observer with the set of expectations you describe would not type this person as an S, although they identify as one.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  6. #156
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Uh..... I don't think this appropriate forum to debate the scientific method, but after reading several studies in scientific journals, I assure you that the researchers were well-trained and knew how to try to minimize such skewing of the data.

    Plus, I've gotta remind you that almost no S is going to get a Ph.D. in Philosophy and dedicate their life to teaching it.

    And while I believe in going where the chase leads me, it's just common sense (at least for me) who was a graduate student and has interacted with a gazillion academics. Publishing in journals, speaking at conferences, developing new and innovative theories.... this has got N written all over it.
    There are probably more Ns in this field than Ss, but it's kind of silly to say that almost no S will do it.

    I think your perception of Ss is skewed toward SPs and away from SJs.

    The whole idea of "man I don't wanna deal with it if it's not physically tangible and right in front of me" is really much more of an Se concept (used by SPs) than Si (used by SJs), but MBTI oversimplifies and fails to account for this difference.

    SJs actually tend to do very well in academia because it rewards their consistent preparation and attention to detail.

    Even some SPs might get into this kind of field, just usually not ESPs. Remember that for ISPs, Se is the secondary priority--both Ti and Fi are frequently interested in philosophy and these are the dominant functions of ISTP and ISFP. ISTP may be a Sensor, but he's a Thinker first.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #157
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    An admin and founder of one of the larger philosophy sites online is an ISTP with degrees in philosophy. I know it's just a random fact, but sometimes I wonder. An observer with the set of expectations you describe would not type this person as an S, although they identify as one.
    Upon reading this, I think of what one of my best friends (and an INFP, and a gay man) always says to me. "I'm sure there are some straight guys that have slept with other men. But, who you sleep with doesn't make you gay. It's who you fall in love with that makes you gay. Our sexual orientation is in our head."

    Said in another way, there is a HUGE difference between an INFP who's trying to act like an ENTJ and an ENTJ.

    Just because one random ISFP has a degree in philosophy (and kudos to them), doesn't negate the fact that getting a Ph.D. in philosophy means dedicating one's creative energies to everything that is not S.

  8. #158
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Upon reading this, I think of what one of my best friends (and an INFP, and a gay man) always says to me. "I'm sure there are some straight guys that have slept with other men. But, who you sleep with doesn't make you gay. It's who you fall in love with that makes you gay. Our sexual orientation is in our head."

    Said in another way, there is a HUGE difference between an INFP who's trying to act like an ENTJ and an ENTJ.

    Just because one random ISFP has a degree in philosophy (and kudos to them), doesn't negate the fact that getting a Ph.D. in philosophy means dedicating one's creative energies to everything that is not S.
    What do you think is S, out of curiosity?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #159
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    The whole idea of "man I don't wanna deal with it if it's not physically tangible and right in front of me" is really much more of an Se concept (used by SPs) than Si (used by SJs), but MBTI oversimplifies and fails to account for this difference. SJs actually tend to do very well in academia because it rewards their consistent preparation and attention to detail.
    I both agree and disagree with you here.

    I agree with you that SP versus SJ is a huge difference. SJs are consistent and attend to details. And, this gives them some options that SPs don't have. For example, most lawyers are Ns. But I have a dear ISTJ friend who is an attorney. Her strengths as an attorney are her consistency and detail orientation. At the same time, she's not good at innovative interpretation of the law. Nor is she good at intuiting witnesses' responses. In fact, her boss always has another attorney (an ENTJ) handle witness interviews. This would limit her career if she wanted to be a partner in a big law firm. These attributes are very highly valued in the legal profession. There are just too many Ns that can beat her on these measures without even trying.

    Here's where I disagree with you: As an almost professor, let me say that while consistency and attention to detail are almost always positive attributes, this is absolutely NOT what academia rewards. The rising star professors are those who come up with brilliant ideas and have the ability to dazzle others with their intellect. If they are late to class, don't return papers on time, or fail to develop a lesson plan (LOL! Professors are never even taught to have lesson plans), this has almost ZERO effect on how they are hired, evaluated, and promoted. (Interesting to note that K-12 teachers are rewarded on such measures. And research shows that most K-12 teachers are Ss while most professors are Ns.)

    What prestigious conferences they are invited to because their colleagues are impressed with their brilliant insight and innovative thinking. Which grants they can secure because they are going to change the way a discipline looks at a given problem. And, every once in a while, how well they are liked by students. These things are what makes or breaks a professor. The Chair of the Philosophy Department couldn't give a flying flip if their newest Associate Professor attends to their students' names and keeps consistent office hours. To be a successful liberal arts professor in a tenure track position, you MUST be fluent in the concepts of your discipline. Concepts are in an N's wheelhouse.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    both Ti and Fi are frequently interested in philosophy and these are the dominant functions of ISTP and ISFP. ISTP may be a Sensor, but he's a Thinker first.
    My significant other is an ISTP so I know this type very well. This is a great example of why an ISTP is highly unlikely to be a happy philosophy professor.

    My ISTP boyfriend may have dominant Ti. However, he makes decisions on the information he takes in. So the kind of information he processes is dictated by whether he's an S or an N. And according to David Kiersey, for people who focus their information gathering on tangible realities, the second most important difference is the emphasis on structure vs. process (J-P).

    Back again to my SO. He is so smart and stimulates my intellect all the time. However, he picked up a Thomas Merton book to read last week and told me that he's having a very hard time getting through it. "Why?" I asked. My SO responds "Well, he just rambles on about all these ideas. It's very hard to follow."

    And yet, if I asked him who played TJ Hooker's second partner in the TJ Hooker Xmas special that was only aired once and now can only be seen either in Betamax or on YouTube, he'd give me an accurate response on this specific, non-conceptual detail in three seconds flat. And damn it, he'd be right about 120% of the time. (This blows me away. I can't even remember what I ate for breakfast today.)

  10. #160
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    You can definitely use MBTI for whatever you like, but that doesn't mean it's the right way to apply it.

    Your approach is more of trying to force people into the typical behaviours that represent their types, instead of understanding that those profiles are based on averages, and most, if not all people stray from that average, some excessively.

    I'm sure in academia, if you are grossly late with your papers and assignments, you do suffer the penalty. And SJs seen as those who are neat and tidy, even organized, is a stereotype that doesn't fit them all. A lot of SJs aren't organized, like me, for instance. SJs can also use innovation. As an auditor, there's a lot of judgement involved in applying accounting principles, and sometimes that means going toe to toe with controllers, CFOs and bigwigs of organizations to interpret accounting guidance. It takes a lot of innovation and ability to read into more than what's in print, sometimes even manipulate. It comes into play almost every engagement. A lot of Sensors are accountants, very successful accountants, and they are able to take the guidance and translate it to help support their arguments.

    I'm not going to go back and forth with you, though...because you are going to believe what you want, and see things how you see fit. But know that you won't get far with that logic. You'll be safe in academia, because intuition is prolific there; I just hope you don't prejudge any poor S students you come across.

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