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  1. #11
    Senior Member gretch's Avatar
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    ARGH! I wish I had time to respond. As it is I'm on my way to readying myself for an appointment. I'm so excited about the amount of feedback I've recieved. I wish I could talk to you all. It's so nice to find typing enthusiasts.
    A man is not idle because he is absorbed in thought. There is visible labour and there is invisible labour.
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  2. #12
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Not sure where I should put my thoughts because series 1 & 2 seems to tie together too well in my mind. So I'll just put everything down here. I am an INFj with Pish tendencies. I've only started learning about types and temperaments a few years ago. I suppose taking the indicator while I was still in highschool might be more reflective of my true type? (maybe... maybe not ) Anyways, I'm pretty sure the way I was raised affected my personality... and that could have potentially blurred the j/p distinction.

    ... anyway she believed that the two center letters (at least from how I got it) were inherent to us and that the two outside letters were developed as we better understood our preferences... In short center letters: Processing, outside letters: preference. She said that how developed the J/P preference was, is a matter of how successful one feels. She said that failure to develop a strong J/P prefereence was a matter of questions over one's life as to how successful they felt at their way of processing. I think she even suggested that P's and J's be given different sorts of task more suited to them.
    I learnt something new today. Thank you! Hmmm the inside/outside letters business slightly puzzles me. It certainly applies in my case, but how does it relate to dominant,auxiliary,tertiary development? Isn't dominant suppose to be developed first? And the position of that letter depends on type...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    My mother was very loving but was also very indifferent as a parent. I seldom saw her growing up because she was usually working or sleeping. Even at a young age, the responsibility fell to me to see to the care of my little brothers. When I moved to my grandparents, it became obvious quickly that they were very overprotective and they treated me like a child all the way into my 20's. It was not a good exchange for a kid who had had so much responsibility heaped on his shoulders to take care of the house and get good grades to end up being treated as a "know-nothing kid". Nonetheless, their style of parenting was very permissive as even when I was "grounded" they never enforced it.

    It wasn't until my 3rd year of college that I had a complete emotional collapse and was finally able to take responsiblity for my own life.

    Anywho, I'm told I was a very outgoing and friendly child, bouncing off the walls with energy, and trying to make friends with everyone when I was very young. I often wonder if the hell that was junior high and my mother and grandparents less than ideal parenting lead me to become so introverted.
    I relate very well to that experience. I think I'm the only N in the family. My dad's an ISTJ, mom an IsFJ (I could be wrong... it's difficult to tell), and my younger brother an ESFJ. Where should I start? Well I think it's best to divide my childhood as "early" and "late". I was/been told I was a completely different type of kid when I was very young.

    Way back in my early childhood... before immigrating to Canada yada I lived the life of an only child. (My brother and I are 7 years apart you see.) I've been told I was a happy and naturally curious kid. Definitely an NF because I liked daydreaming a lot... and I'm very protective of my friends. I recall I once stood up against a guy in 6th grade or something when I was in 3rd grade. And I was pretty small. That was silly of me lol. I was a lot more outgoing though in my mind.

    Then there's the moving business... moving wasn't so bad. Things are very nice here, I wouldn't want to go back. But I see my dad infrequently because he works overseas. There's also the birth of my brother... I guess growing up as an only child I wasn't used to getting so much less attention. So life became a little bit of a competition for attention. It could be where my P tendencies arisen from. Attention seeking antics. I'm also did well academically in elementary and highschool. Doing well in school became another way of making my parents proud of me. I think it led to inward withdrawal in fear of messing up. Ironically (or not so ironically in retrospection), THAT messed me up.

    Like you kiddo, I had a lot of responsibilities placed upon my shoulders... I get stuck with most of the chores around the house... and the job of fixing things when stuff goes wrong. At the same time, my mom (her being an ISFJ might have something to do with it) is extremely protective of me. In some ways I'm still treated as a kid. But I'm a classic head in the clouds person.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    My mom tells me as a toddler I'd worry her because I'd go up to strangers, and was really curious and friendly.

    Like you, junior high marked the beginning of my retreating fully inward. That's where the fear of people set in, because I didn't understand why all the kids around me were so 'mean' and 'petty'.
    *nods* It's like you sense that people around you are so completely different that you couldn't imagine being involved with them. And since there's nobody else around, you find your escape inside your mind.

    I wonder how much effect the environment has on introversion. NFs are especially sensitive toward people interactions. So would an introvert be as introverted if they grew up in a calm and supportive setting? What about those forced Es and closet Is?

  3. #13
    Senior Member Littlelostnf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gretch View Post
    I am working on a few new theories about parenting styles, people who are x's ( as in like xnfx) etc.

    I have quite a lot to say on the subject, but more than that I desire to know the inner workings of family on your lives and quirks.
    As much in detail as you can would be most welcome! I'm terribly interested.

    Well my dad is an ISTP (close on the T/F border but def more a T) my mom is an ISFJ. I am an ENFJ and I have to say my parents must be pretty balanced people. I never felt misunderstood or restrained. I think my parents were pretty amazing dealing with me as a child because I was very emotional and full of energy. I have two older sisters (both I's - ISFP and INFP) so you can imagine a little ENFJ coming along..but they handled me well. It wasn't until I got much older that I realized that my mom didn't really understand me but the HUGE amounts of love that she gives me more than makes up for it. My dad and mom both are very very proud and are and always were very nurturing of my intense curiousity and love of learning. (my dad especially he is very encouraging of academic endeavors)
    I just recently realized how amazing they were as I have an ENFP friend who said she loves being around my family because they truly do prize intellect, whereas her family while intelligent don't truly value it or encourage it like she wishes they would have when she was younger.

    Wow I've gone on and on..hope this is helpful.

    btw...I def was the child who pushed boundaries and crossed lines and of course I was a really good kid (no sex, drugs or rock and roll for me either...well maybe rock and roll) but def dif from the others. My brother (youngest is an ESFJ) and while people think we are alike my parents could tell you it's really not so beyond our both being people people.
    for my life is slowed up by thought and the need to understand what I am living.

  4. #14
    Resident Snot-Nose GZA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Anywho, I'm told I was a very outgoing and friendly child, bouncing off the walls with energy, and trying to make friends with everyone when I was very young. I often wonder if the hell that was junior high and my mother and grandparents less than ideal parenting lead me to become so introverted.
    I think that its possible that that would cause more introvertedness, but it doesn't seem likely neccesarily. I was the same way, my mom remembers me being very outgoing, talking to everyone all the time, untill I was about 10 or 11 and I stopped talking to people and became more quiet, and she finds this odd, but not bad (shes ISFJ). The difference between us, though, is that I did not endure a huge amount of bullying and emotional pain. I was bullied, because being so sensitive, I was an easy target (I'd react to it), and to this day there are some people who take it upon themselves to be assholes and try to annoy me, although at this point it isn't emotional pain and it isn't bullying, its just people remembering me when I was younger and trying to get that again.

    So... I definitely think that emotional abuse could add to introvertedness (especially because it effects confidence so much), but it doesn't seem like soemthing that would make a really huge difference... it couldn't, by itself, turn a strong E into a strong I or anything.

    So about my own experiences with parents... well... I'm still going through that because I'm only 16, but I still can talk about my previous years, and right now.

    As I mentioned, supposedly as a small child I was very very outgoing, although I remember that not being entirely true. I had the classic INFP thing going on as a toddler -my friends were my stuffed animals and they all had personalities (which I find fascinating to analyse now, by the way, because they fit roles of my bold and adventurous side, my worrying, hesitent side, and how I saw myself, which was pretty much as quiet and a little sad soemtimes and very "calm waters run deep", even if I was like 4). I was sometimes E I suppose because I was a pretty good leader, I remember everyone kind of somewhat looking up to me and following my imagination when playing games in primary school. I guess thats where my parents got that idea.

    By the way, my dad is ESTJ, and my mom is ISFJ. I'm not entirely sure, but those seem to fit very well.

    My mom, despite being introverted, would, and still does, encourage socialization in groups and birthday parties because "its normal" (her exact words -funny now how "SJ" that is), which was something I didn't always enjoy. Sometimes it could be hell going to big gatherings as a little introverted kid... you'd run away and be terrified by the people everywhere, and then they would insist on forcing you back in and surrounding you and trying to reassure you how much everyone likes you and to stay put. That was terrifying, being surrounded by people and having them tell you how much they like you even though they really havn't talked to you... its like fraud!
    But... my mom is great despite that, for the most part. See, I'm the youngest child, and my siblings have gone to university, so she seems very clingy to me. She oftne treats me like I'm still 12 years old, and my dad does to some extent, too, and so do my neighbors (because of the 10 or so kids in the neighborhood who are in this close group of four families on my street, I'm the youngest and therefor my innocence must be protected from the big bad world, while the guy just a year older can deal cocaine! Ha!). I don't like being overprotected like this, but I kind of understand that its natural for people, especially an ISFJ it seems, to do this with their youngest kid. I sometimes worry about her, because when I move out she will likely be a total wreck. She also pays to much attention to media sometimes, and says she is overweight and seems sad about it. She has gained weight since she was young, but to a healthy extent, and she should not feel bad about it one bit. Shes the kind of person who would suffer hardcore from a yo-yo diet type thing... but luckily she hasn't tried that yet. I also worry she works too much sometimes...

    I've felt close to my dad on and off throughout my life. Sometimes, he was fantastic, he would take me to Toronto by train and we'd have a great day there, or we'd play cards or whatever. He tried to teach me golf, he tried very hard, its his passion, but I didn't bite, which has been a source of distance between us soemtimes, because he'll insist I golf and I never want to. I also have memories of around when I was 10 or 11 of trying to talk with him and be his friend and tell him how much I loved him and feeling very ignored because he'd be watching TV or something. He'd give me attention, then stop listning partway through my question and be focused on the TV. Worse, I remember on a couple of occasions he actually fell asleep right when I was asking a question. That is trememdously heartbreaking... almost brought a tear to my eye again Nowadays we mostly connect over similar tastes in music, but its becoming more apparent to me that we have very different personalities, and these somtimes conflict. For example, he'll insist I do whatever I can to make money, but I believe that money isn't really worth it and I should only try to make money doing soemthing I value. He also has a very very different view on work (that it MUST be done NOW, while I prefer to work hard on things that are important to me and drift through things that are not important to me). This is a source of conflict because he gets very very upset if I don't do some of my work and it really hurts me We also differ on how we try to give appreciation. He'll try to buy me things sometimes, especially when we are on vacation, material goods, to let me know I'm "a good man", but I'm not interested in material goods because they don't bring much to your life. But overall, my dad is great, even if overtime as I've got to notice his personality traits more, I've noticed we are very much different in how we think and this sometimes causes problems.

    By the way, I've found that school and peers have causedmore pressure on the NF aspect of my personality than my parents. My major-legue impracticality is not welcome, and my use of feeling is definitely not welcome in most cases, such as in Law class recently when we were suppose to pick fictional people to be on a jury based on how well their likely biases would suit our case. This is very much a rational, logical exercise, but I refused to do it because I felt it undermined the ideals of truth and the pursuit of justice Plus, having to do math all my life... :steam: :steam: I hate math, and its caused problems for me my whole life. I'm glad I'll be done soon!

  5. #15
    Senior Member quietmusician's Avatar
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    Well, my story is way too long to tell, so I'll keep it simple. I just found out recently that my mom is an ISTJ (I haven't typed anyone else in the family). So this had me thinking about how she was back when I was younger. She's so open minded so that is definitely a good quality of hers. And she pretty much let me do whatever because she knew that I was an oddly level headed child. I never really had curfews that were super strict. I was spoiled (and still am) as hell. The only thing I would say that wasn't so fun back then was the fact that my family kept me away from doing anything that was seemingly dangerous. I guess I should mention that I was raised by all women (my mom, grandmother, and aunts) and being a guy it was difficult.

    I couldn't go out a play paintball, buy a motorbike, get a bb gun, and other male related things. And I didn't really push the issue because I didn't want to seem needy. Anyway, on a good note, that probably adds to my understanding of women in general. So overall I would say that I was only kept on a somewhat tight leash, but not overly so. I think if my dad had been around (he was an alcoholic and left the picture) I would have turned to darker habits. I already feel like an unhealthy INFP (if I can call myself one), but having him around would have pushed me over the edge.

  6. #16
    Senior Member tibby's Avatar
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    my dad is ESTJ and my sister ISFJ, I'm not sure about my mother, she tested as an ENFJ, but knowing another ENFJ has really made me doubt my mum's type. She has many ENFJish qualities, but then some things don't fit her at all, but I bet it has to do with her brain tumor she has in her frontal lobe ("the personality lobe"), that has apparently been growing in her head for the last 10 years and got to a size of an orange, so.

    As younger, I was always "daddy's girl". Me and my mum didn't get along well, she was the strict autocrat who didn't showany "motherly" or "warm" emotions, or if she did, it was very irregular and always came as a surprise. She had a very thick skin, so I never "bonded" with her. She certainly wasn't the kind of mum you'd go after you've hurt your self to ask for comfort. This obviously affected me and our relation. I don't know if it has been even heightened by my personality (INFJ), if that has made me more "vulnarelable". She has said very recently that as a baby, as a little kid, I was very "in-tune" with other person's emotions, and I couldn't have been fooled by saying something and meaning something else. She was always very critical of me (my appearance, my weight, especially), and she let me know it. I was always normal weight / slim but she wanted me to be skinny.

    My dad, although we were much "closer" (and viceversa; my mum and sister were the same way), I never had a "deep" relationship with him either. I now know it's mostly due to our differences, we both have been trying real hard to understand each other, but it's hard, when I really have nothing common with him. He calls me a "dramaqueen" and I call him "insensitive".

    Maybe because of the lack of physical and emotional warmth I created a very thick skin for myself from a very young age on. I was hiding my true emotionality and replaced it with cynicism and "I don't care about others"-thing. I had adopted a very cold and sceptical attitude, which was killing me on the inside. Nothing could've been worse than showing your weakness and weakness meant = showing emotion. So for me it meant like denying myself completely.

    Only have I been able to "be" myself in course of the past year, really. Stress had been piling up on me and I never once paid another look to it, but it caused me to get very ill in the end, which took a year to get better from. I sort of had that "facing" of everything; I no longer could kept on going the way I had been. One of the greatest things happened to me was when I heard of MBTI and took the test. Before I acknowledged I was an INFJ, I felt so incredably lost, alone and wrong. I lived a very narrow social life for a very long time, so I never met any other like me (I doubt I had even come across with an NF). Most people I knew I had a very superficial relationship with (which I resented, cause I hate superficiality, but you couldn't really get deeper with them either, cause they weren't deep like I was, but I guess most of them were S's)

    The journey I've had has been very liberating. I recognize my strengths and accept my weaknesses, and it makes me feel so much better just knowing there's nothing really "wrong" with the way I am - and that I can actually offer something to others.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by gretch View Post
    I have quite a lot to say on the subject, but more than that I desire to know the inner workings of family on your lives and quirks.
    As much in detail as you can would be most welcome! I'm terribly interested.
    I am not quite sure what is it exactly that you want (I can't read further into the topic now, or it will influence my answer) but my family life from my perspective was quite like this: There was the happy time. Then the parents broke up surprisingly and I got to be the "third parent" because I was the oldest of us (12 or something). I spent all my teenage years trapped in this situation, I was only trying to avoid things that would add to my parents stress.. It was a very unselfish time for me, but not in a good way. After years of this coping with their moods I had no friends anymore, I had basically turned into an unhealthy INTP who doesn't even realize he's not happy. I had efficiently killed my emotions by then. I never saw dreams and I stopped painting and drawing for all those years.

    About their parenting style. That is quite simple really. My ISTJ dad did the money things. We had clothes and food and so on. My INFJ mom was the parent. Without her I bet I would still be a mess. But, she flipped a few years later because of the stress, so we lived with dad after that. When she got better, she has been even more supporting and just doing her things, and basically being some sort of role model for me, while dad is just at work or playing golf or silently angry. So... Yeah.

    Then, if you want to know about my brothers. There's the ISxJ brother who is a few years younger, and then the ESxP, who is seven years younger. I think the thing in common with me and ISxJ is that we both know what physical punishment means and this is why me and him have this passive-aggressive attitude towards dad, while ESxP never had to learn that, so he can express his anger a little bit more directly. Of course this might have to do with E vs I. I think the ISxJ of us is the most like dad, and he even has had some violent outbursts that could have ruined his career. And he likes to work, a lot, so it might have been devastating... The ESxP brother is more like me in the way that we can talk to each other with no defenses. I'd say he is the one who had most of freedom when growing up.

    The way that the parenting style affected me... I think it made me shrink at first but when I got up, I was better than I would be without the bad times. And this isn't really even about parenting style, because it was not something that can be called parenting since after the breakup they were both living for themselves so much more that it was a huge drop from how it had been.

    The way things are now, I sometimes visit them, but often think that dad doesn't really even want to see me, since we never speak much, and if we do, it is only things that interest him. When I talk about my stuff, he usually seems to dissolve into the background. I like to go see mom, though. She's nice. It might be ironic that she is the one who "wasn't there" after the breakup and her breakdown, but she still was there more than dad.

    Ok, hope this was what you asked for...

    Now, off to read the other replies, then...

  8. #18
    Senior Member r0wo1's Avatar
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    Wow, reading some of the other responses shows that I was blessed growing up. Its interesting that you ask this question because I had been thinking about this myself or the past couple weeks or so.

    I grew up in a very introverted family, my Mom tested as an ISFJ and my Dad as an INTP. I test INFP (which I'm pretty confident of... sometimes :P), my sister is in all likelyhood an INTJ, and my oldes brother seems to be the only one to break the I mold and tests at an ESFP, (the other two siblings are too young to be accurately tested.)

    Because both of my parents are fairly introverted it seems pretty natural that us kids would be as well. We were never discouraged from socializing or going out (indeed I was occasionally begged by my parents to go out on a friday night) but most of our time was spent with just our family, (ie, vacations, free time, etc).

    My Mom was great, I'm definetely closest to her, although sometimes she has a harder time understanding me, probably because she is a strong sensor, in spite of that, she never tried to suppress my "oddities" as a child, (IE, exquisite imagination which lead to several imaginary friends, running around in the backyard for hours with a stick fighting monsters etc), but rather encouraged them. I think this must have helped my N to develop, and I've retained most of that imagination to today.

    My Dad also was very supportive, but had a harder time due probably to his T function, he just couldnt quite understand my emotions most of the time. Although interestingly enough, now that I think about it, he was the one that would occasionally hint at the fact that maybe I should "pull my head out of the clouds" although he never pushed the issue.

    Something both my parents are very bad about is stressing problems. It seems that my parents spent most of my childhood stressing, and I saw the negative effects of it. Not so much projected towards the family, but more towards themselves. And in turn my sister also tends to stress things (especially college) to the extreme, and my brother as well (they just moved to a new state and he's have a difficult time fitting into the new school, he's a sophmore in high school). I seem to be the only one that keeps my head for the most part in a stressful situation.

    In my case, I think I'm introverted simply because I was raised introverted. My Mom being an incredibly strong feeler could have passed this on to me.

    Goodness now that I've written this I dunno if it is helpful at all... I hope so!
    r0wo1 the destroyer of threads has struck again...

  9. #19
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    Ok, now that I read, I think the way it goes is that the type is set in the childhood or by genes or whatever, but the environment can be such that it distorts the type. If I had been as receptive as an F when my surroundings were very negative emotionally, I don't think I could have handled it. So, my INTP period was needed. It made me hurt less and it made me react less. If it had been any other way, the situation would have been totally different. The funny thing is that even though I was a living dead at the time, I would always crack jokes at the dinner table to keep the family entertained. It was like I wasn't allowed to express any negative feelings, but only try to create positive feeling in others. Actually, even these days, my step-mother often would like me to spend more time there because of this "positivity" but she doesn't see that I can't be around them because it still makes me feel ill. It seems like nothing has changed in the past ten years. Besides, my superficial positivity was never meant to be for them, it was for my brothers. Keep their spirits up.

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