That's a great story, OMT, and an freakishly accurate illustration.
This is most exceptionally unfortunate! I do fear however, that if you joined forces with an ENTP female, together, you would take over the world and unless I'm part of the world-taking-over duo I would have to object and defeat you both through vial and unethical techniques such as making you laugh in the middle of important and most sombre speeches! Maybe it's for the best =/
Woman. You will be minez. *presents you with many shiny objects and dances a mighty fackeltanz at you daringly*
I knew I was missing out on something.
An ENTP girl buddy. My ENFP twin gets on like gangbusters with our ENTJ girl buddy. They play off each other in ways that are so natural and instinctive that I really can't pinpoint just HOW that car "goes" but go it does, tearing down the road. Athena can be as Te-forceful as she wants but Fi-vulnerable with Jaye. It's very sweet. Athena and I have a mutually beneficial, very affectionate, but almost mano-y-mano relationship (she likes it when I tell her all the ways she's right and how I'm going to knock a mutha out with a frozen sea bass for her lol), while Jaye makes her all warm and fuzzy. ENTJ guys have pursued my sister over the years and I'm glad because I like ENTJs. INFJ guys love her to pieces as well.
Nope. One of my best friends is an ENFJ, and out of all my friends, she seems most like my "soul mate".
She's tenacious in that she doesn't let up in arguing with me.
She gets irritated by me, when I insult the Fe. Trivialize that she cares so much about what people may think...purely to get a reaction from her......which she predictably gives......then realizes she took the bait. Then, she's off on a hunt to hurt me, which ends with her exasperated at me, yet, cannot help but laugh.
She picks up quite quickly when I'm trying to play with her by trying to get a rise out of her, as it's my more "childlike" Fe trying to manipulate her fully-grown one. So, she's quite forgiving, and finds it endearing, in a way (if not a bit exhausting sometimes).
However, we can both be very, very stubborn, but, she comes around faster than me, full of hot contempt. And, we duke it out, and, it's like everything is cleansed (negative energy). It's pretty cool.
From my end, I offer her Ti-perspectives on things, which she likes a lot. She likes how "simple" I make issues (break it down), without overanalysis of emotional stuff. The bare bones of things.
That's what gets to me. It's the amazing spotlight power of Ne too, I think, because Jaye can cut through that sort of thing with me. Conversely, I can help her sort through piles of factors that make her brain want to explode with my ferreting Ni.
The other night, she was struck with this idea to make Valentine cards for all the ladies at my mom's work department (four total, including mom), and then something for our grandmother. I was struck with the thoughtfulness, and watched her with interest as she pulled out all of her Victorian paper and whatnots and started making the most marvelous little cards. Trouble reared its head about an hour into the process. She was bogging down in the details.
Even though I felt bad, I told her to give me the mass of little tedious things, which she gratefully did. I cut out all the tiny little objects and embellishments for her. She said later "I'm glad you offered. I have the grand view, but the devil is in the details." I don't mind the tedious stuff for some reason. I like precision and on some level, perfection. Jaye has a lot of great ideas and starts many projects, and I'm there to keep her on task or spur her through the tedious bits. Not that she doesn't have stick-to-it-tiveness, but sometimes these grand ideas come into reality as a forced march.
She and I make a good team. "You and Daddy are like that," she said, making her marvelously artistic arrangements.
"What do you mean?" I asked, razor-blading out yet another gold foil butterfly.
"You're made for it. You know, the introversion. You and Dad are the least likely to give up on a project."
She looked at me, went "UGH! I'd be in hell!" and we started laughing.
Jaye is really good at helping me to see the big picture and remove me from the unruly mob of minutiae where I tend to get lost and never come back out. I just go from one Ni point to the next until someone pulls me out.
What I gain from it - she's pretty much the only person that I want to bounce-off of, in order for me to explore my emotions. I think it's the power of the Fe(backed up by Ni). Others who try to get emotions out of me, I find either irritating, irrelevant and thus flippantly dismiss it and them. Or, close down.
However, if I'm ever in turmoil about grasping (trying to) some feeling, she's the only one I can think of to unload on. All the confusion surrounding what I may or may not feel; with her, I can let my guard down, and know she'll guide me to find the answers for myself. She's a pretty secure safety net for exploring the nuances of my feelings, which I rarely do. So, when I need it/it happens, I'm thankful for that (and her).
I have this dynamic with male ENTPs. I have a very close long time friend that graduated to "family" status years ago. I really do love him in an unfleeting way. He's had a very difficult life, and I know things are bad when he drops his powerhouse frontman (he can get anything done, he's amazing) and the bright banter.
One night he dropped by on the way to a party, and I could tell something was really wrong the minute I laid eyes on him. I pulled him into the house and he tried to act as if he was alright, but he actually broke down in tears. It took everything in my power not to grab him and squeeze him. I was trying to control myself because I didn't want to upset him further or make him feel any more emotionally freaked out. I did take his hand and listened in silence, and made sure to look him straight in the eye and tell him that everything *was* going to be alright and that we loved him. I think it did something to him. He left in slightly better shape, at least calmer, like he had somewhere to go when he was cracking into pieces. I truly do understand him, and I can't say why.
Maybe it's different for men and women. I'll call out this one buddy of mine for when he's just getting completely over the top with the Fe-ishness (missing T, perhaps?), and he'll make a nice dig when I'm out in the ether somewhere. Neither of us get offended, though it seems like neither of us understand where the other person is coming from (though in a sense, we do, it's just that it doesn't seem as real or important to us).
So yeah, to others, it may not seem amicable, but in fact it is - we'll compliment each other's accomplishments, and when that person gets knocked down a peg, we'll build them back up (since we'd rather take shots at each other when we're at our best - that's the fun part!)
This was me with my ENTP ex-bf. It wasn't right unless we were both "on". If I was upset and silent, it freaked him out. One day the worst happened, and I just shut down. Completely. The longer I was limp and going through the motions of my work day without any sign of life, the more freaked out he got. I just didn't care about anything around me. I was gray. By the middle of the shift, he'd grown so alarmed by my ghostly removed presence, that he'd gotten me into a body press with his face right in mine, worriedly
demanding to know what was wrong. I didn't want to talk. I didn't want to do anything. But he wouldn't let me go. It was good that he did in that case. I don't think I was going to improve. When I turn to stone, there's something SO wrong that it's dire.
I'd go from being his ready and willing scourge, to turning like a dragon on anything plaguing him.
there's something to this combo. I recently started working with the only real ENFJ I have known again. (Why dont you just give me a list of what you want done and I will just directly answer back, yes I can or no I cannot do that. Stop trying to make me feel like I am failing the group by not doing tasks when I am resourced at 400%then inviting me to meetings on the sly and issues subtle hints that I am now responsible for a task. Guilt? no I wont feel guilty.)
Pinch her boob.
lalalalala....I really like domino though.
Pinch my boob.
Anyways, this entp does have odd interactions with the few entps I have seen her with. It looks loud and slap happy on the surface, kinda like the three stooges. I dunno, just an observation.
That's how my ENTP started things with me. It's this giant sense of circus-y playtime. I'm a cartoon. He's a cartoon. Actually, I thought of him as the ringmaster (with everyone circulating around him) with a Cheshire cat grin and a dirty look in his eye. I had no idea, at first, why I was his Waterloo, but the minute he prodded me and I verbally cut him, it was true love. How does one describe a passionate love kumite filled with bloodshed and affection without giving the wrong idea?
Possibly, I'm among the few that she really trusts. That's because I told her that I know how her charisma works (yeah, Ti getting over analytical, as always), and yet I still end up liking her character (though no real plans of pursuing things further).
Is that tertiary Fe tattling on Fe primary?
ENTP-ENFJ relationships are like ENFP-ENTJ relationships, usually effortless if both people are sane. These relationships can be very fruitful and fulfilling.
ENTPs work even better with INFJs, just like ENFPs work even better with INTJs.
I have to say - my ENFP twin *likes* INTJs and has even been attracted to a few, but she's really had a lot of difficulty warming up to them or connecting with them IRL. She picks INFJs constantly, and personally, seems to like the F-F interaction.
socionics actually categorizes ENTp/ENFj as a relation of benefit. The ENTp is the benefactor and the ENFj the beneficiary. The ENFj apparently sees the ENTp as needing help in some areas (probably making eccentricity something socially acceptable/advantageous!...or maybe its dealing with feelings?) and is more than willing to give it for nothing in return at first. Eventually (can be a long time though), either: the ENTp grows suspicious and weary (why is this person being so helpful etc?); or the ENFj grows resentful and weary (why am I doing this, when I get less in return?). The relationship can continue positively then only if the ENTp continues to provide something the ENFj "needs" and thus balances the asymmetric relationship. Presumably, it could be as simple as the ENTp providing an outlet from always having to be "on" or intuitive conversation.
The only "help" I've seen any of them needing is to keep their foot out of their mouths. I don't correct that behavior, I just ignore it. Whatever "help" they require, if they come to me with it, I'll do what I can. That's what friends do. It can be troublesome to get past their exterior persona of control sometimes, but once they get to know you, that will crack or fall to the wayside. You'll see what you need to see. The trick is to love them intensely out of the weakness without letting them drown in their feelings. It's all about keeping them safe, like a guard dog, until they get back on their feet and start kicking some butt again, as they should be, in whatever arena they chose. I hate to see my Athena down too. It's just not right.
I find it almost absurd how much love an ENTP can excite from me and the ardor of it. It's not slavish, but it is something like conjuring the goddess from the volcano and having her fall violently (yet tamely) in love with you. It was the first time I thought, "You can have me on a plate" which was terrifying but natural. A very few INTPs have exerted that sort of control with me, yet only one or two. They back down from me, or try to outrightly control me. I really hate that because I know it doesn't have to be that way. ENTPs go right past that - it's firmly "your my girl", but without the death grip. I can't explain that. If they put their hands on me, I'm not offended. If they tease me, I know the rules of the game. If they look at me a certain way, I know what they're thinking and keep their secret.
Thats all just socionics speculation though. who knows
. Do any of you ever feel your ENTP/ENFJ relation is a relation of asymmetry?
I've felt "lopsided" with many types. I think it has more to do with personal growth and emotional maturity than anything, and not so much the literal translation of "type". Being taken for granted or run over by ANYONE is exhausting and off-putting.
Point is...I'd like to experience this ENTPness...preferably a hot female one.
Me too!
I'd be unstoppable with a hot female ENTP.
Now back to The ENFJ-ENTP Dynamic.
I can see this being a good match and here's why (Let's see if I can say this without sounding like a complete jerk...):
Both ENFJs and ENTPs are able to manipulate people in pursuit of their goal with such mastery that it's really sort of scary. And frankly, this conscious manipulation of people oftentimes offends my ENFP sensibilities. Nonetheless, I speculate that this ability to manipulate people is the main point of connection between ENFJs and ENTPs. It's sort of like they both believe in working people to get done what needs to be done.
What I find reallllly interesting is that the underlying motivations for manipulation are COMPLETELY different. (All you ENFJs and ENTPs out there, tell me if this doesn't ring true.)
ENTPs and ENFJs have a lot of Fe (Extraverted Feeling) going on. Fe requires a great deal of social manipulation when done right. making sure everything is working smoothly between several different people means that you are attempting to manipulate the situation into something you perceive as socially correct. Fe means an ability to sort of be all things to all people which by definition means there's some degree of "fakeness" that you're putting up.
ENTPs use their "working people" powers to get what they want... oftentimes in a more spur of the moment manner than ENFJ who always has an agenda. For example, ENTP male wants to bed a woman he just met and then really turns on the charm.
ENFJ Executive Director of non-profit makes a snap decision that he doesn't like someone because this person got in a fight with one of the ENFJs inner circle (but the fight had nothing to do with the ENFJ personally or their non-profit). The ENFJ feels he is justified in pre-meditatedly trying to hurt the "offenders" reputation by telling all the right people what a bad person "the offender" is.
The above two examples are real ones based on my own observations. And, of course, not all ENFJs/ENTPs would do these things. I chose to use these extreme examples to illustrate the strong connection ENFJs/ENTPs have about seeing the people they encounter as tools for the agenda au currant.
Interesting. Quite.
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