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  1. #61
    Member Phenix's Avatar
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    I have the greatest respect for women in the military. In many ways kyuuei is right, they are usually seen as females (not women) first. The ones who survive are uniformly intelligent, self-confident, and independent. What's not to love?

    Women are equal citizens and have the equal right and privilege to serve their nation. They have had the short end of the stick for far too long.

    Agreed that military service changes you, for good and bad, one must admit. One of the greatest benefits, however, was the chance to really experience different cultures. My family and I came to appreciate the goodness of the American experience, but also was exposed to the perspectives of the rest of the world and how they see the impact of US actions. It made me appreciate how important it is for the United States to use its military and economic power wisely. Alas, most of our politicians (and let's be frank, ordinary citizens) can't see beyond the end of their nose. I suppose that makes me one of those ex-military that seem to have contempt for civilians. I would hope that one appreciates the difference between contempt and pointing out difficult truths with intellectual honesty.

    How did I get on this soapbox? Kudos to kyuuei for inspiring a speech out of me. Stop poking the bear!

  2. #62
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Well, it's been my experience that those with the highest interest in "proving" their manliness, for whatever reason, have the highest levels of gender insecurity. And your OP exudes all kinds of insecurity. And only someone with an unusual level of gender or sexuality confusion would be so insecure. [And don't say that it's because of the context. I know full well that you are reacting to NF male stereotypes of being feminine. You should realize that it is your reaction to this stereotype that makes you seem gender insecure.]
    Orangey, you took the words right out of my mouth.

    Hexis, I hardly know where to begin:

    #1 - As a rule, ENFP and ENFJ males are pretty normal but non-caveman-like guys. The E makes them too aware of how others perceive them so it tends to tone down excess NF-ness. (The one exception to this I'll note is the two gay ENFJ friends I have. Oy vay! They could not be more stereotypical queens if they tried. But perhaps they are - in typical E fashion - embracing the role society expects them to play. Dunno.) So what the heck are you doing being all paranoid / overly sensitive about the effete NF male stereotype? This is pretty much applied only to INFx guys. Just doesn't ring true to me.

    #2 - I have to ask if you are pulling "ENFP Conversational Tactic 12a" which is making some outrageous statement that you only half believe or don't believe at all just to see the fireworks. 'Cause that's my read on your post. If this is the case, then good for you. You really stirred up a sh*t storm. But this ENFP sees right through it. <Insert eye rolling here.> So sack up and admit it if this is the case. (I apologize for the crudeness, but I tried to use terminology you'd understand.)

    #3 - If you really do mean what you wrote and you are indeed an ENFP, then you have some serious psychological issues. I don't say this because you share the worldview of the trailer trash that live in rural South Carolina (and I live in SC so I can get away with saying this). I say this because any self-respecting ENFP cares deeply about connecting with people, making them happy and tailoring his approach to ensure those around him are comfortable. So I go back to #2. I think you don't believe most, if any, of what you said. You're just stirring the pot so you can sit back and watch the show.

    #4 - If you really do mean what you wrote, this sounds wayyyyyy more ESFP than ENFP to me. How do you know you're an ENFP? I haven't heard anything you say smack of strong Ne... or hell any Ne at all. So prove me wrong. Dazzle me with your brilliant extraverted Intuition. Unless the whole OP was BS, this shouldn't be a problem for you.

    So in conclusion, I will wait for you to give me something that proves you're really an ENFP. Or, I'm waiting on you to admit this is just an experiment to find out how far you can push the envelope. Which one is it?

  3. #63
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    So what the heck are you doing being all paranoid / overly sensitive about the effete NF male stereotype? This is pretty much applied only to INFx guys. Just doesn't ring true to me.
    What stereotypes are we even talking about here?

  4. #64
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexis View Post
    Something in me has been sparked recently on this forum. And im tired of hearing about all the jokes and crap about NFs. This is to give you an idea of how me, Hexis, lives as an NF male and how I truly think. I would like opinions and discussion after you've read the following. The more you are offended by something in the following the more I want your opinion.


    I'm an in NF no doubt about it. But in no way do I "feel" for animals who are abused, the poor, starving kids, the homeless, or those less fortunate than me. I like guns, like shooting them and better yet killing and eating an animal I just shot. I dont get teary eyed when I hear about your sap stories. I like using terms that others would find inappropriate to refer to parties of individuals who piss me off. I believe in an eye for an eye. I like fighting with my fists. A normal conversation with my mother includes enough swearing to make a sailor blush. If you offended me in person I would be just as liable to hit you as to call you down. I would be offended if you didnt stand up to me when I offended you. I take pride in being called bronze over brains. The sound of a Harley driving by or a colt .45 going off gets me just as excited as a chick moaning. Porn that a feminist has said personally to be demeaning to women I give five stars. Im offended when women get upset cause they think they should be on equal footing with a man in an MC. I feel women are better fit to be in the kitchen and bringing me a beer but im not against having a sugar momma who wants me at home to take care of the kids. Sup motherfucker is hello for my friends. Hello or hey is for people I dont like. I think of vegetarians as worthless ****ies even though my ex is one now my opinion altered accordingly. I dont do charity cause I believe the people asking for it are scamming me. If I owned a non profit organization my first goal on the agenda would be how to ring a profit out of it. I get pissed when a girl is slandered for having more sexual partners than me, id still hit it. I go for my knife when some bum asks me for change. The sight of kids playing makes me happy. I feel spanking as well as physical training are great motivators for kids. I feel religion is a waste of time. I respect those who can devote their lives to a singular belief. Im offended by those who believe its ok to push their beliefs on others. And I dont like people when I first meet them.

    Discuss.
    Either you're not an ENFP, you're incorrectly expressing what you actually mean, I'm completely off when it comes to typology or the theory in itself is worthless...

    ...but that bolded part specially cannot be true....

    I think you are falling victim to the stereotyping that happens on these forums, that would have you believe feeling for something or someone means to feel exactly how they do or shedding a tear or two in the process...

    Being a male ENFP myself, I find it hard to believe an ENFP doesn't have empathy within him.


    You can be as "tough" as anyone else. That doesn't mean you are not an ENFP. But behavior and cognition are two different things. What you do and how you actually feel about it or what you actually think about it when the shit hits the fan, are two different things.

  5. #65
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    ...but that bolded part specially cannot be true....
    Why not?

  6. #66
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    Why not?
    Well in theory, there is that possibility I guess, but from my observations, any NF who doesn't feel for animals being abused at all, has either never seen one being abused in front of them (and thus frames it in an utmost abstract manner) or has mistyped him/herself.

    Not feeling for starving kids and feeling happy when you see them playing is also kinda contradictory.

    I eat animals, I don't go out of my way to save every animal on earth nor do I particularly like the company of animals, but I don't not feel something for an animal that is being abused.


    Yes, every person of every type is unique...but like I said, I don't believe an ENFP can truly mean some of those things, like others pointed out before.

  7. #67
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Well in theory, there is that possibility I guess, but from my observations, any NF who doesn't feel for animals being abused at all, has either never seen one being abused in front of them (and thus frames it in an utmost abstract manner) or has mistyped him/herself.
    NFs can be shockingly cold and detached if they shut down their empathy processes. It's almost like an overcompensation. I absolutely believe in the feasibly of the above, though. Errant Fi that fails to leave its own head can be shockingly disconnected to the states of others.

    It's very possible the OP was just over-dramatizing to get a reaction, though, as stated in a couple of posts above.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    NFs can be shockingly cold and detached if they shut down their empathy processes.
    In actions, sure. But in terms of how the think and feel about what they do...hmm, I have a hard time believing they aren't in cognitive denial.

    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    It's almost like an overcompensation. I absolutely believe in the feasibly of the above, though. Errant Fi that fails to leave its own head can be shockingly disconnected to the states of others.
    Yes. But to self-awarely admit to not caring just seems fishy. I'd say errant Fi that fails to stay in its own head for more than a few minutes can be shockingly disconnected to the state of others. But out of self-centeredness or negligence...not out of actually not caring if forced to think about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    It's very possible the OP was just over-dramatizing to get a reaction, though, as stated in a couple of posts above.
    It's either that or problems in quantifying things in order to get a point across....which is something I think an ENFP is prone to do. Which is why I said there's something that rings untrue in his original post.

  9. #69
    Member Liquid and Flammable's Avatar
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    Personally I never thought NFs of being the "sweet people, who behave socially accepted everytime". This can hold for many NFJs, but not really for many NFP.

    Fi is a very ambivalent function, which can influence behavior in both directions: Good and bad. It can grow to extreme love-behavior (very strange for T-Types), and to extreme hate (also very strange for the most Ts). And the thing, that can be really hard to understand to Ti's, is that the people with Fi can "shut down" their empathy. Sometimes from one moment to the other.

    The stereotype of NFs, the thread-starter imagines, is really not existent, because it shows just one of two directions, and don't recognize, that it can switch in every moment.
    ** Upgrading my english **
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  10. #70
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    In actions, sure. But in terms of how the think and feel about what they do...hmm, I have a hard time believing they aren't in cognitive denial.
    Cognitive denial is another explanation, in addition to an Fi that simply refuses to value the health of other living creatures. Either possibility makes sense to me.

    Yes. But to self-awarely admit to not caring just seems fishy.
    I can understand that feeling. It was pretty extreme statement, and likely it was meant to elicit a reaction.

    I'd say errant Fi that fails to stay in its own head for more than a few minutes can be shockingly disconnected to the state of others. But out of self-centeredness or negligence...not out of actually not caring if forced to think about it.
    Fi is an internal value system subjectively derived on how something feels within the person. I'm not sure what obligates it, by definition, to care about the well being of other living creatures.

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