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  1. #11
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexis View Post
    Well I agree my Fi may be out of control on most situations, but I think I prefer living my life this way. I like acting on emotions and instinct, it feels right. Ive tried in the past to suppress or reign in what I suppose you would call my Fi. And each time ended with me being disappointed and feeling ashamed, as if I didnt do what I should have. And if this is something that is suppose to change as I "age" or grow more "mature" then I never want to grow up.
    This is interesting because it calls attention to the fact that something that is so much in control, cannot be reigned in under control because it revels in its "might" as "right". This something in your case being Fi. Fi controls you, so, how can you possibly detach from that pov, and objectively evaluate whether you need to gain control of it? As Fi will answer for you, "Do, don't try to control me. Let me reign free."

    Fi supresses any form of control over Fi; objectively necessary or not, is irrelevant. It doesn't feel right (to Fi), thus, it isn't.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hexis View Post
    Damn i meant to qoute this in the last reply too, sorry Qre:us. Well actually I veiw it the other way around. I feel giving in to emotion allows for a certain amount of passion in life. And those who cant have passion or give in to emotion once in a while to be completely worthless. Not pussies exactly but definitely worthless.
    Passions in life do not exist within its own bubbles. Every action has a reaction. Unless you live in an isolated island, by yourself, the consequences of your passions are not just about you, but, all those that are affected by it, in the grander scheme of things. Thus, letting your passions run free, without any thought to restraint, makes you worthless in terms of the greater scheme of things.....if the consequences of your passion affects such things negatively (e.g., harmfully). Self-control means knowing when to let a passion run free, and when to supress it. It doesn't negate passion, it contextualizes it.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Hexis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    This is interesting because it calls attention to the fact that something that is so much in control, cannot be reigned in under control because it revels in its "might" as "right". This something in your case being Fi. Fi controls you, so, how can you possibly detach from that pov, and objectively evaluate whether you need to gain control of it? As Fi will answer for you, "Do, don't try to control me. Let me reign free."

    Fi supresses any form of control over Fi; objectively necessary or not, is irrelevant. It doesn't feel right (to Fi), thus, it isn't.
    And thus Id have to ask the question. Would I be happier giving free reign to my Fi, or reigning it in? Not even you could know, and beings im pretty happy with it being the way it is I have no desire to change this about my self.




    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Passions in life do not exist within its own bubbles. Every action has a reaction. Unless you live in an isolated island, by yourself, the consequences of your passions are not just about you, but, all those that are affected by it, in the grander scheme of things. Thus, letting your passions run free, without any thought to restraint, makes you worthless in terms of the greater scheme of things.....if the consequences of your passion affects such things negatively (e.g., harmfully). Self-control means knowing when to let a passion run free, and when to supress it. It doesn't negate passion, it contextualizes it.
    So first of all, letting my passions run loose "might" be negative to the world as a whole but not certainly. And you fail to see the fact that I dont care. If I go down in history as another Hitler or another Einstein, so be it. I would in the end be immortal in fame or infamy and be a lesson to others on how to improve themselves either way.
    SDMF

  3. #13
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    This is interesting because it calls attention to the fact that something that is so much in control, cannot be reigned in under control because it revels in its "might" as "right". This something in your case being Fi. Fi controls you, so, how can you possibly detach from that pov, and objectively evaluate whether you need to gain control of it? As Fi will answer for you, "Do, don't try to control me. Let me reign free."

    Fi supresses any form of control over Fi; objectively necessary or not, is irrelevant. It doesn't feel right (to Fi), thus, it isn't.




    Passions in life do not exist within its own bubbles. Every action has a reaction. Unless you live in an isolated island, by yourself, the consequences of your passions are not just about you, but, all those that are affected by it, in the grander scheme of things. Thus, letting your passions run free, without any thought to restraint, makes you worthless in terms of the greater scheme of things.....if the consequences of your passion affects such things negatively (e.g., harmfully). Self-control means knowing when to let a passion run free, and when to supress it. It doesn't negate passion, it contextualizes it.
    Both excellent points, but there's one glitch. Fi doesn't need control, Fi needs finetuning. It is true the Fi will rebell against any restraint, as it would the same as denying who you are. It is however possible to make those passions smoother and more mallable, have them channeled properly. Hexis has a point when he says that it's what gives meaning to life, passion makes you feel alive and you'd be a fool to lock that away. That would be the equivalent of feeling dead while still alive...worst nightmare ever. While a Fi gone wild can certainly damage the outside world and vice versa, and therefore it is wise to develop it, the way to develop it is not by desperately trying to control it. It's by finding the right way to guide it..to let it flow smoothly while giving it all the freedom it needs.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  4. #14
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexis View Post
    And thus Id have to ask the question. Would I be happier giving free reign to my Fi, or reigning it in? Not even you could know, and beings im pretty happy with it being the way it is I have no desire to change this about my self.
    I don't think you'll know until you've lived beyond the shadows of Fi. So, even when you previously supressed it, it was under the shadows of Fi, thus, if didn't feel too good.

    So first of all, letting my passions run loose "might" be negative to the world as a whole but not certainly. And you fail to see the fact that I dont care. If I go down in history as another Hitler or another Einstein, so be it. I would in the end be immortal in fame or infamy and be a lesson to others on how to improve themselves either way.
    Oh, I got that "image" (bolded) from your OP - it just looks a whole lot like you care too much about showing that you don't care.

    Like you are quite invested in giving a great big to the world.

    But, I'm not demanding you change or anything (impossible - as I'm nothing to you, an anonymous net entity). My opinions are just not in support of what you present, while there are others who will show support to your OP. Just giving the "other side" pov/reaction to your OP.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Both excellent points, but there's one glitch. Fi doesn't need control, Fi needs finetuning. It is true the Fi will rebell against any restraint, as it would the same as denying who you are. It is however possible to make those passions smoother and more mallable, have them channeled properly. Hexis has a point when he says that it's what gives meaning to life, passion makes you feel alive and you'd be a fool to lock that away. That would be the equivalent of feeling dead while still alive...worst nightmare ever. While a Fi gone wild can certainly damage the outside world and vice versa, and therefore it is wise to develop it, the way to develop it is not by desperately trying to control it. It's by finding the right way to guide it..to let it flow smoothly while giving it all the freedom it needs.
    I think you're adding a value judgement to the word "control" and thus, interpreting it as negative. Wouldn't finetuning it be a form of control over it? You're directing it in more precise directions rather than it does whatever it wants. That's a "control" over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    It's by finding the right way to guide it..to let it flow smoothly while giving it all the freedom it needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Self-control means knowing when to let a passion run free, and when to supress it. It doesn't negate passion, it contextualizes it.
    These sentiments of ours seem to be the same, if you take out any value judgement of the word "control".

  6. #16
    Senior Member Hexis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Oh, I got that "image" (bolded) from your OP - it just looks a whole lot like you care too much about showing that you don't care.

    Like you are quite invested in giving a great big to the world.

    But, I'm not demanding you change or anything (impossible - as I'm nothing to you, an anonymous net entity). My opinions are just not in support of what you present, while there are others who will show support to your OP. Just giving the "other side" pov/reaction to your OP.
    Dont give me wrong I do love giving the world a great many big middle fingers. But I do so care how people perceive me, why! As an ENFP is exactly what I thrive on. Ive know an ENFP he likes to claim he doesnt care what people think about him, hes a liar and a pussy. Me though, i like to take what people think about me and store it away to maybe better myself later...dont get me wrong, that doesnt mean I like criticism. Why do you think i come to an anonymous board?
    SDMF

  7. #17
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I think you're adding a value judgement to the word "control" and thus, interpreting it as negative. Wouldn't finetuning it be a form of control over it? You're directing it in more precise directions rather than it does whatever it wants. That's a "control" over it.





    These sentiments of ours seem to be the same, if you take out any value judgement of the word "control".

    Hehe, possibly. Consider it emotional nitpicking over definitions, as you NTs do intellectually when starting a debate. And since you are in discussion with an NFP...it's necessary

    Control = surpressing, fighting and conquering to me. Dunno about Hexis, but from his posts I had the impression he might agree with that. And I tried that for years as well. It does *not* work on Fi.

    Channeling = mastery, ime. It means you truly understand and grasp how it works, so you can manipulate it more precisely, allowing you to guide it without hindering.

    To use another example: Suppose you break a horse oldschool: controlling, putting a restraining briddle on it, forcing it to accept a rider, the works. Now compare it to working with the horse, easing them in and not stiffling their nature. Speaking their language, using their language (of herdlife) in order to guide them to where yo uwant them to be, without crushing who they are, without forcing in any way, and accepting them for who they are, and using that to show them what you want to show them . That, imo, is mastery.

    Fi is a wild horse
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexis View Post
    Dont give me wrong I do love giving the world a great many big middle fingers. But I do so care how people perceive me, why! As an ENFP is exactly what I thrive on. Ive know an ENFP he likes to claim he doesnt care what people think about him, hes a liar and a pussy. Me though, i like to take what people think about me and store it away to maybe better myself later...dont get me wrong, that doesnt mean I like criticism. Why do you think i come to an anonymous board?
    You're not afraid to present a less than ideal image of yourself to the world even at the risk of being unfairly judged for it. And if you are judged fairly, you will take it into consideration and work on yourself with it.

    I can relate to this. I'm as idealistic as INFP's come, but I can still present myself in a potentially unflattering less-than-ideal light (I can come across as a misogynist). If I am judged for it, I will try to better myself if the judgment is true, and try to defend myself if the judgment is premature/false.
    The purple sun won't heal my purple bruises :ouch:

  9. #19
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    Prince - ENFx?

    Ricky Williams - INFP (wore a dress on the cover of SI magazine)

    Marilyn Manson - NF of some sort



    just sayin

  10. #20
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Hehe, possibly. Consider it emotional nitpicking over definitions, as you NTs do intellectually when starting a debate. And since you are in discussion with an NFP...it's necessary

    Control = surpressing, fighting and conquering to me. Dunno about Hexis, but from his posts I had the impression he might agree with that. And I tried that for years as well. It does *not* work on Fi.

    Channeling = mastery, ime. It means you truly understand and grasp how it works, so you can manipulate it more precisely, allowing you to guide it without hindering.

    To use another example: Suppose you break a horse oldschool: controlling, putting a restraining briddle on it, forcing it to accept a rider, the works. Now compare it to working with the horse, easing them in and not stiffling their nature. Speaking their language, using their rules in order to guide them to where yo uwant them to be, without crushing who he is, without forcing in any way, and accepting him for who he is. That, imo, is mastery.

    Fi is a wild horse
    Okay, since we're using horses as analogies - how about seeing the word control = tame?

    Not to break the horse (force = control), but, to tame (=control) it to want to do what you would like it to do.

    At the end, the only way control would not be an applicable term is if in your analogy you let the wild horse be, no interference at all, letting it run free, but, once you intervene (aiming for mastery)...you've asserting some form of "control" [beyond dressing up the word].

    Quote Originally Posted by Hexis View Post
    Dont give me wrong I do love giving the world a great many big middle fingers. But I do so care how people perceive me, why! As an ENFP is exactly what I thrive on. Ive know an ENFP he likes to claim he doesnt care what people think about him, hes a liar and a pussy. Me though, i like to take what people think about me and store it away to maybe better myself later...dont get me wrong, that doesnt mean I like criticism. Why do you think i come to an anonymous board?
    Yeah, I pointed out earlier that you seem to care. It just seems like you care about "not really caring" (unless others' perceptions agree with the image you hoped to project). Your words earlier:
    Quote Originally Posted by Hexis View Post
    So first of all, letting my passions run loose "might" be negative to the world as a whole but not certainly. And you fail to see the fact that I dont care. If I go down in history as another Hitler or another Einstein, so be it. I would in the end be immortal in fame or infamy and be a lesson to others on how to improve themselves either way.
    ?

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