User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 31

Thread: Dom-tert loops

  1. #21
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I cannot ruthlessly cut out extraneous information and come up with a proper outline, even though I am fabulous at doing it with anyone else's work. This has caused me incredible amounts of time, stress and headache. I also have great difficulties summarizing the plot of a movie etc. Is this Ni-Ti? If so, what function would be the one that would help pull me out of that loop?
    I have seen NeTi folks do this, but more vocally. They cant talk through an idea without sharing every single tiny Ti detail. I have coached several of them to add a summary sentence every five sentences, or they will loose the Te users who fund their projects. But feeding into Ni? I dunno how that works..

    Really stressed INFJs either become kinda mean or they can be rather odd and persnickity.

    Aphrodite, I didnt quote but could you be using Fe to manage the household? I am going to comment on the ISFJs in a sec, but they use Fe like Te to run organizations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Hmm... Now I find myself mulling over the ISFJ loop, which includes the same functions in the opposing direction: Si-Ti.

    Both loops focus on defending themselves from external forces that seek to overwhelm either the Ti understanding or Si perception of the world. Ti defends itself by supposedly leaping to Si, retreating into the world as it has been known and drawing its sense of the world from those familiar experiences. Si defends itself by dropping into rational Ti support for its perception... without widening the scope of its perception, so all the rationalizing might be thorough but is all self-justifying and within experience scope. This is similar in some ways, I suppose, except I think the two types still have different foundations depending on which function leads.

    If INTPs supposedly break out of this by resorting to Ne (Intuition), then the theory would also say that ISFJ's would break out of this by Fe (values). Is this plausible or sensible? What would it look like? Does it mean one should not expect ISFJ to recalibrate Si via the consideration of possibilities and instead focus on the ISFJ's sense of appropriate relationships and interpersonal respect? If the theory is correct, it would mean the pathway toward enlightenment/wholeness would be very different for INTP vs ISFJ.

    Or does the theory start to break down here?
    YES YES YES!!!

    Jen, I have been watching two male ISFJs lately. They are horrific. This seems odd to me as I have multliple INFJs who are actually quite good. The Ni-Si diff is striking here.

    Both of these men will use Fe to "feel" like Te and control others. It works very well on Fe users, even EXTPs. People get a sense or caring and logical competence from them. They can organize effectively to a localized extent. On the surface they are very impressive and poised. They are horrifically nonlogical.

    One seems to live in his own little universe. You bring him new information about how things are doomed to fail, and he just says, well we need to work harder as a team and I am sure these things will work out and smiles. Any mention of problems is considered negative. He actively avoids people who disrupt harmony-ie mention reality. This guy is at a breaking point though, so this Si-Ti linkage is very pronounced.


    What is extraordinarily scary about both of these guys is what they say-it changes everytime you talk to them, depending on who you are. And they dont seem to recognize it changed. So they say different things to different people, and everyone trusts them, until the entire system implodes upon itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Well, I've had fruit loops before.
    you'd have an Fi-Ni loop right?

  2. #22
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/so
    Posts
    1,565

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    For INFPs, this can mean losing sight of new possibilities and letting Si reinforce bad feelings from the past to the point of withdrawing & becoming cynical, which may appear as a "negative attitude" or "whiny". I've mentioned that for ISFPs, their Fi Ni loop may look like "paranoia", as they're not using Se to perceive reality.
    I have a good ISFP friend who is like this. Usually he has a pretty optimistic view of people, but I definitely see paranoia crop up from time to time. It's always a surprise since he seems more accurately aware of his environment than I am, then suddenly a theory will come out of left field that seems totally off-base and paranoid to me.

    He also tends to have theories that to me just seem like putting too much emphasis on events that could be explained by coincidence. I could see that as being the result of tertiary Ni, too.

    Still, he a good friend and has helped me with getting out of my head and enjoying the moment a bit more. Just odd to see those pockets of paranoia crop up.

  3. #23
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESFP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    6,727

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    you'd have an Fi-Ni loop right?
    I doubt it. Doesn't sound like it would taste very good.
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

    "I like the sigs with quotes in them from other forum members." -- Oberon

    The SP Spazz Youtube Channel

  4. #24
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    7,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by purplesunset View Post
    Damn you Orangeappled! Damn you to hell !!

    You know before I read your post, I was rolling my eyes at this thread.

    I was saying to myself, "Oh boy, not another silly arm-waving theory from another armchair psychologist online"
    Who says I am not?
    Exploring silly ideas is my "small talk".

    But I then I totally saw myself in this:

    I wonder though, how much of this actually is related to type-specific loops, and how much of it is just a more general issue that is common to human beings regardless of type. Perhaps you're just observing specific instances of the same neurosis which is common to us all.
    That's true....as brought out below, I think the main idea behind it is when introverts ignore the external and extroverts ignore their internal self. The idea of the tertiary coming into play is that it serves as a crutch in place of the auxiliary. The introvert can stay safely hidden away in their cozy cave, and the extrovert never has to venture into that dark & scary cave.


    Quote Originally Posted by BallentineChen View Post
    I agree. I think it's helpful to think of it outside the context of specific functions but rather as a matter balance. The same "dom-tert" loop can apply to extroverts that continually look to the objective (environment) for their answers. The point is that there's supposed to be a dialogue between the subjective (self) and the objective. I think focusing in on the local mechanics of dom-tert is reductive in a way that ignores the broader issue of balance and integration.

    In my personal experience, when I've failed to get feedback from the world my wild interpretations and justifications are allowed to grow, until I hear myself explaining my ideas to someone and realize how silly they are. An organism is supposed to be able to respond to the environment, it must receive information and then act accordingly. If an organism acts without environmental input (dominant introversion-tertiary introversion) it may encounter reality that it is unprepared for.
    That's pretty much what is behind the idea. "Dom-tert" loop is just a casual way of referring to behavioral patterns in types who seem out of touch with their auxiliary function, so they're either too removed from external input or too removed from internal contemplation (depending on whether they are E or I). "Balance" is obviously the key to not falling into that rut.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  5. #25
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    eNFJ
    Enneagram
    4w3 sx/so
    Socionics
    eNFJ Ni
    Posts
    11,443

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    My loop tends to involve over-analysis of possibilities and not being able to figure out which one is 'right'. Spinning around in circles reassessing all of them, but not able to hone in well.

    Or, I spiral down into negative thoughts/perceptions of the world and Life and find myself in a bit of an existential crisis. That sort of thing.
    This is me too.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  6. #26
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    infj
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyward View Post
    From the pattern I've seen in myself: Fe is your secondary function, so it catalyses the primary function's energy regeneration, making an energy building loop. Try talking about whatever project you have with someone. That would move the problem away from yourself and into a neutral zone (because someone else is discussing it) and will make it easier for Fe to zero in on it, pulling Ni along in a more focused way. Ni that is unfocused has little use, just like all the other types.
    exactly, it allows you to sketch it out. focus is a byproduct of creating a better perceptual blend/brew, but doing this requires some empirical information to build upon and open up the possibility for real feedback that is not pure presumption/assumption.

    the energy thing is so important too. i constantly look to share enthusiasm with others. certain things immediately get me to 100%. but in other things, i need a good vibe to get me going. this is one thing i love about enps more than other types. it just catalyzes my energies, get back with interest, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    For myself all I know is I get too inward and formulate ideas, and stay inward because I think I'll eventually be able to figure it out by brainpower/analysis alone (when usually that's not the case) - I stop the process of checking externally or getting feedback on whether or not any of my conjectures actually reflect reality. (at least for the first paragraph. The second paragraph is entirely internal, though, more of a result of my being generally unhappy/dissatisfied with my life, and then analyzing it so much that I enter the black hole of negativity)
    the responsibility of envisioning the truth from the beginning of time to the end of time is too much. there are too many changes and fluctuations to recognize the one big pattern that connects everything and that is everything. our patterns that we use are different than Ne patterns for intps, they allow themselves to go find them in the moment, we intend to supply them from the past, bring immense context to our logical foundations. but our logical skills are so secondary that which contextualizations to choose becomes awful, and what actually cues these suites of understanding up is more often related to our motives and emotional ambiances which can fly under the radar.

    what i mean is that Ti should be the final finishing touch and not the foundation. and our foundation is fluid and fluxy, so by taking out the world as the constant, by ignoring the moment via Fe, we are capable of some serious crazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I always feel like Iím building constructs in my head, that I should have ideas fully formed before trying to connect them to the external world; but thereís so much deconstructing going on in there as well that I often end up with something just as vague as when I began thinking about it. Basically it amounts to believing that Iím building something up in my head, but- since I do that by dismantling it- itís never clear when Fe is supposed to jump in and try to share it. I end up feeling like a missed some critical juncture somewhere, where the Extraverted Judgment *might* have been able to do its job.

    I get it a lot while writing papers too. And actually, I've often had to leave the rough draft for long enough to forget all the extra stuff- the crazy dismantling going through my mind while writing it- in order to move forward with it.
    the vagueness i agree with again so much. i find that when i imagine other people reading my paper and imagine their critiques, i immediately know the questions they would ask. and then i can integrate them into the paper. finding the questions is always the key to me being specific, direct, precise, clear, explicit, etc.

  7. #27
    Pumpernickel
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    1,960

    Default

    Yeah, i'm constantly in a Te/Se loop

  8. #28
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    isfp
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    8,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    My loop tends to involve over-analysis of possibilities and not being able to figure out which one is 'right'. Spinning around in circles reassessing all of them, but not able to hone in well.

    Or, I spiral down into negative thoughts/perceptions of the world and Life and find myself in a bit of an existential crisis. That sort of thing.
    This is me too.
    Me three. Hey, we could make our own Dom-tert loop.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  9. #29
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    MBTI
    INfJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    3,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i find that when i imagine other people reading my paper and imagine their critiques, i immediately know the questions they would ask. and then i can integrate them into the paper. finding the questions is always the key to me being specific, direct, precise, clear, explicit, etc.
    Exactly. I see all the possible faults and flaws in logic, and- even when I know theyíre miniscule- I find myself constantly getting trapped into making each thought impermeable to criticism. Itís helpful in forming a solid argument, but itís counterproductive when I get so trapped in the fragments that the whole never makes it out of my head (the loop).

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    It particularly occurs when I am trying to write papers that matter to me. I cannot ruthlessly cut out extraneous information and come up with a proper outline, even though I am fabulous at doing it with anyone else's work. This has caused me incredible amounts of time, stress and headache.
    I get it a lot while writing papers too. And actually, I've often had to leave the rough draft for long enough to forget all the extra stuff- the crazy dismantling going through my mind while writing it- in order to move forward with it.
    I bolded a part in what I quoted from fidelia earlier, then forgot to address it. My point was going to be: maybe thatís why itís easier to work on someone elseís paper. Each sentence isnít loaded- with your own possible modifications to the content- and itís easier to focus on arranging immediate content when you're not distracted by all the possible modifications. I know, at least, thatís the reason Iíve got to walk away from stuff Iím writing sometimes and wait till all those *possible* modifications have cleared from my mind.
    Last edited by Z Buck McFate; 02-08-2010 at 12:06 PM. Reason: fixed misspelling.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  10. #30
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sx
    Posts
    11,078

    Default

    I know my problem is very well described by Z Buck's first paragraph! Actually all of her post describes thing very well.

Similar Threads

  1. [JCF] The Dom-Tert Loop Theory Is False
    By Mal12345 in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 07-30-2015, 06:26 PM
  2. Did i just come out of a dom-tert loop
    By DeadRinga in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-17-2014, 09:40 PM
  3. I'm Feeling Loopy (Dom-Tert loops of all types)
    By highlander in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 06-19-2014, 08:11 AM
  4. Dom/Tert Loops: Real or Fake?
    By RaptorWizard in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 05-11-2013, 04:53 PM
  5. My take on the dom/tert "loop"
    By INTP in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-27-2012, 03:52 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO