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  1. #1
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Default For weary Fi-users

    Since this Fi-thread rage won't end, I figured...if you can't beat them, join them! But put your own twist on it


    Although I regret that this excludes our SFP siblings, there was no other alternative. I figured it was time for a thread amongst NFPs about what Fi truly is to them. As it is so individualistic, so different for everyone, it would be truly interesting to see in what ways, and find out without getting a frigging migraine when yet another non-Fi-user feels like bashing/criticizing/judging/misrepresenting this function due to misunderstandings, frustrations, miscommunication and god knows what else. Let's give each other a migraine for once, or even better...let's have a constructive discussion about this.

    As for what I said earlier: though I do not deny there are definitely conflicts with Fi-users that can be irritating depending on what the situation is and there are no doubt perceptions that are transferred by certain behaviors which are negative, and I am in no way trying to make excuses for those behaviors or saying they are to be condoned all the frigging time, I'm tired of having certain things misinterpreted, misunderstood, misrepresented and not even having explanations heard or accepted as true. I figure this way, we might actually get somewhere, and those that choose to read this thread can potentially gain from it as well. Here's hoping!
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    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  2. #2
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    I know Fi is about morality and value systems, but I think it also expresses itself (in me, and some other people with Fi I've known) as an intensity, and a loyalty to who or that which is truly loved.

    People talk about Fi being selfish, but I know when I was a teenager this lyric from Marilyn Manson's "Wormboy" use to resonate with me: so watered-down, your feelings have turned to mud. "love everybody" is destroying the value of because my Fi tells me that love should be GENUINE and PARTICULAR, so if it molds itself to the situation (like Fe is supposed to, I guess) I see it as having less value and I vaguely distrust Fe in some forms, I'm going to be honest.

  3. #3
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I know Fi is about morality and value systems, but I think it also expresses itself (in me, and some other people with Fi I've known) as an intensity, and a loyalty to who or that which is truly loved.

    People talk about Fi being selfish, but I know when I was a teenager this lyric from Marilyn Manson's "Wormboy" use to resonate with me: so watered-down, your feelings have turned to mud. "love everybody" is destroying the value of because my Fi tells me that love should be GENUINE and PARTICULAR, so if it molds itself to the situation (like Fe is supposed to, I guess) I see it as having less value and I vaguely distrust Fe in some forms, I'm going to be honest.



    I agree that Fi is intense and loyal. I also agree that Fi can come off as very selfish as you give priority to authenticity over people sometimes.

    My particular main Fi-values are:

    1. You can do as you please as long as you do not harm someone along the way

    2. Always be yourself, or at least show a part of yourself. This translates into not being fake, though hiding a part of who you are, I've learned is inevitable in society, if you don't wanna run into problems

    3. lying and deceit are two things i will not consciously do. There are very few exceptions to this rule, though I may say no comment or omit things, or put a spin on the perspective on things. But in all three of those cases, I still have a need to be genuine. I agree that the need to please others can sometimes cause you to panick and potentially lie. This stems from overidentifying with the other person's position and feeling you don't live up to it, causing you to promise things you won't keep to and telling lies to cover up that you're not 'worthy'. My need to please others always fought with my need to be honest and authentic, and as I've grown older, I will pick the latter, even if this can get me into trouble for seeming selfish and self-centered.

    4. No hypocrisy or double standards. I'm allergic to hypocrisy. I realize it is really easy to be hypocritical without even being aware of it, so I'm always on the look-out for it. Not saying I always succeed, but if pointed out to me, and clearly overlooked by me, i will instantly make the necessary adjustments

    5. No hounding others. I will not torture others for my own amusement, if they are clearly not enjoying the game. I only enjoy it if they do, and I will also stand up for others who are being hounded and clearly do not appreciate it

    6. Be kind to others. This is my people pleasing one that clashes with my need for alone-time and authenticity. I don't consider it too much to ask to actually do someone a favor or be nice to them, especially if it's not a big deal for you anyways. And, in return, you'll find others are more than willing to do the same for you as they remember your kindness. This however is a bonusfeature, and not the original reason I do this.

    7. No judging others, especially if you don't know all the facts. I'll abstain from judging till I feel I have a thorough understanding at which point understanding will take the place of apprehension and judgement. If I can see where they're coming from I can act more responsibly. If I can walk a mile in their shoes, I can see what we need to get a win-win situation for both of us. THis is however not always possible in practice, at which point, I work with the impressions I have, giving people the benefit of the doubt, trying to come up with logical reasons for their behavior. Once I udnerstand their behavior, it doesn't mean I'll actually stand for it or agree with it, or make excuses for it. It just means I'll keep it in mind and try to work around that hurdle, still respecting my own space if they happen to try and trample me, but without resentment, frustration or a need to get back at them. (Much like you'd stop a child from hitting you by grabbing their wrist in a calm way, without hitting them back)


    Those are my main ones. And yes, sometimes one will conflict with one of the others, and it will depends on my mood, my level of emotional stability, the stress I'm under and the situation which one will prevail. And sometimes...sometimes you make the wrong call, because of the circumstances, sometimes you give priority to the wrong value. Not always easy...
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  4. #4
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Personally to me, Fi is the final judge of any situation, kind of like the Supreme Court. Whether a case reaches that far is another matter.

    A large percentage of the time, I would consider something so trivial that the lower courts will make the decision or don't even bother making one. This usually gives out the vibes that I'm a pushover and it's probably true like 90% of the time. But if there is something I'm really passionate about, I can be as stubborn as anyone else

    The need to be unique and individual is also part of it. If someone told me that a certain book is popular and that I should read it, my first instinct would be "No thanks. I don't want to be one of masses" Let me make my own judgement. "Everyone does that" is not a good way of convincing me to do something

    The other thing though is that unlike the real Supreme Court, the decision made is applicable only to myself. Just because I've made a decision about something doesn't mean I will persuade others to see things the same way. For example, I don't smoke but I'm not going to stop someone I know from smoking unless it is something I find repulsive like smoking in the close presence of children.

    Sometimes, I would hear a friend telling me "I don't understand why you're doing this. You'll never convince me to do the same thing", and I'm like "Errr, ok. I'm not trying to convince you!" Just because I believe something is right, doesn't mean I'm out to prove that you are wrong/bad/evil.

    Perhaps it's the idealistic way of speaking that is making people think I'm standing on a soapbox and preaching. Also, because my prefered communication style is Fi-biased, it will seem like I'm trying to manipulate their feelings or guilt-trip them.
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  5. #5
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    I find it odd how Fi gets picked on so much here, particularly when INFPs are not exactly "accepted" in real life, our strengths are often overlooked in the real world, we tend to be painfully aware of our flaws, and we take criticism to heart. It seems we're just an easy target by bullies on this board. If anyone needs a critique of their shortcomings, its ExTx types, who are often by far and away the most arrogant and prone to having a big blind spot in seeing their own faults. Criticizing INFPs is like picking on the skinny nerd at school when you're the brawny popular guy - who is really the pathetic one? /rant

    Anyhow.....to answer the OP (and excuse me if some of this crosses with Ne, but it's hard to remove myself from my other main function):


    Good
    - my Fi is a source for ideas and fundamental principles like Peace & Love & Honesty, it's a strong internal compass of right and wrong that guides (not dictates), things resonate within me as true, easily recognizing what is authentic and what is not, wanting to get to the core of a matter, finding meaning out of situations/emotions and refining my reasoning, evaluating myself constantly which promotes growth, inspires creativity - as ordinary expression can not capture feeling accurately, autonomous in nature, values passionate feeling which adds color and meaning to life, gives backbone & courage, thinking in picture & "mood", makes me inclined to exercise compassion, sympathy, and keep integrity, champions the underdog and being unique, not afraid to go against the grain, want real & deep connections with people, caring about people as individuals & not faceless groups, recognizing it's subjectivity & allowing for different feeling in others that are not any less valid, a strong understanding of who I am and what is important to me.

    Bad - can be surprisingly stubborn, champion authenticity to the point of being rigid, can be rebellious against external rules to a fault, difficulty in expressing myself using external measures can make beliefs seem baseless in reality (even if they're not), frustration in explaining a feeling so it's understandable to others, feeling misunderstood & alienated from others, frustration with the world & it's evil, overwhelmed & paralyzed by strong feeling & emotion, sometimes have misplaced sympathy, internal conflict between values/emotions, love being "unique" to the point of romanticizing my flaws or tragic situation, harshly criticizing myself & never being good enough, too high standards, passionate feeling may not get checked & can overflow into being temperamental, too sensitive, and high-strung, prone to melancholy, don't relate to most people, Fi caring/warmth is often hidden making me seem aloof/cool on the surface, moodiness, sometimes self-absorbed & selfish, sometimes have an elitist attitude, values/beliefs can be hidden and seem like "mine bombs" to others - and when the bomb goes off it can be ugly.


    And here's my basic description of my introverted feeling:

    An internal knowing of what is right and wrong and what makes sense, particularly from what I call a "human standpoint", dealing with emotions & morals and how they work, and trying to harmonize the inconsistencies through evaluation. Things tend to resonate with me as truth immediately, and further reflection and analyzing sort of fits it into already existing beliefs, or susses out why it resonates as truth. Sometimes there is conflict with new info, and resolving it can distress me, as can resolving a strong emotionally-driven desire with my values. Most everything is personal in some sense....I have to relate it to myself to understand it on a level where I can decide if it is right or wrong. That relating and evaluating is not done in such a linear manner though. As mentioned, often I start with the feeling and work through the "why" afterwards. It's a bit holistic and exploratory, like starting with a lump of clay and shaping it until it's a form you can name - it's not an exact science, but an art.

    There is also a welling up of feeling - not emotion, but just a feeling that says "this is me, or what I believe, or an idea I feel is worthwhile" and it can be felt in a mood, an image, a melody, a phrase, etc. When I come across a way to reflect that feeling externally, I will feel immediately, "this is how the feeling must be expressed".
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  6. #6
    Senior Member aeon's Avatar
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    My Fi is my judging sense of this vs. that, with this having a different value than that, those values assigned from my internal hierarchy that is the sum total of my personal experience. Those values are grounded in their relation to people, both my own self and those that I experience as other.

    Fi is a tendency, or preference, in my mind. It is effortless, and presents itself before any other mode of feeling or thought.

    One thing I am sure of - Fi, in my conscious awareness, has nothing to do with emotion. It is, for me, a part of cognition. Emotion can inform through those functions that gather, and emotion can arise as a result of Fi judgement, but Fi is not part of my emotional awareness or experience.


    cheers,
    Ian

  7. #7
    ~*taaa raaa raaa boom*~ targobelle's Avatar
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    I had to look at the portrait of an enfp to confirm that enfp's are in fact Ne Fi types

    Fi for me is my private place, it's what I hide from people it's where I learn about me and reflect on life and situations. Like many of you it's my internal guide. When Fi is over riding my Ne then I know there is a problem, I know there is something wrong.

    I'd like to say that Fi is my soul, it's where my deepest darkest secret hide, its where my poetry soars from and where I retreat to when I need answers.
    ~t ...in need of hugs please...
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    Extroverted (E) 63.16% Intuitive (N) 60.53% Feeling (F) 84.38% Perceiving (P) 87.1% ~Your type is: ENFP

  8. #8
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by targo View Post
    where I retreat to when I need answers.
    That's a good way of putting it - for me, Ne can be the "why?", exploring & finding possibilities, and Fi can provide the "because" by reasoning on and narrowing those possibilities to what feels true.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  9. #9
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aeon View Post
    My Fi is my judging sense of this vs. that, with this having a different value than that, those values assigned from my internal hierarchy that is the sum total of my personal experience. Those values are grounded in their relation to people, both my own self and those that I experience as other.

    Fi is a tendency, or preference, in my mind. It is effortless, and presents itself before any other mode of feeling or thought.

    One thing I am sure of - Fi, in my conscious awareness, has nothing to do with emotion. It is, for me, a part of cognition. Emotion can inform through those functions that gather, and emotion can arise as a result of Fi judgement, but Fi is not part of my emotional awareness or experience.cheers,
    Ian

    I'm actually getting to that stage, where i can seperate the two. Yes, the emotions will spurr me to figure out what is going on and after they've waned, I'll use the emotions to see which part is most urgent for me to understand and deal with first, but at that point, it's a mere memory, and not actual feelings that work the system. Once I sort through things, I'll categorize it for future reference, and decide on a course of action. Very often, I just catalogue the feelings and realize that there is no need for action, just understanding

    Quote Originally Posted by targo View Post
    I had to look at the portrait of an enfp to confirm that enfp's are in fact Ne Fi types

    Fi for me is my private place, it's what I hide from people it's where I learn about me and reflect on life and situations. Like many of you it's my internal guide. When Fi is over riding my Ne then I know there is a problem, I know there is something wrong.

    I'd like to say that Fi is my soul, it's where my deepest darkest secret hide, its where my poetry soars from and where I retreat to when I need answers.
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    That's a good way of putting it - for me, Ne can be the "why?", exploring & finding possibilities, and Fi can provide the "because" by reasoning on and narrowing those possibilities to what feels true.

    I relate to the bolded parts


    For that matter, most of what I've read in this thread, I recognize so well.


    So how is it, that we always seem to come of as selfish? Reading how these things work, how they are intended, you'd think that that would in itself be a good thing. And isn't it ironic that a type that is devoted to understanding and peace keeping seems so unable to communicate its intentions to the outside world. Why is it so hard for the outside world to perceive what NFPs often try to offer?

    I admit that for me criticism is hard, especially when it's repeated. I mean..tell me once, sure, though chances are ...I'm already aware of it and working on it. But tell me repeatedly, is like an insult. Either the other party is right, but I'm already working on it, and trying. Not seeing that is..insulting. Or, I disagree with their views and I feel they're infringing on my right to be who I am, and live as I please. One exception, if it directly influences them, I'll adjust the behavior around them. But even that is not always appreciated as it is considered *fake* and not a real change *for the better* as the other party considers it. Also, the person who is criticizing better either put it diplomatically or be without sin himself. I find nothing harder to stomach than criticism from someone who is not without blame himself. It's like...first lead by example and maybe then you get to come and point fingers at me..maybe! Then again, I consider that hypocrisy and I'm allergic to it. I'm already accomodating you on your flaws as well and not demanding you to change..at least show me the same curtesy, or be willing to accept criticism from me as welll, without going: 'that wasn't the topic/issue at this time! You're just trying to deflect!'. Ehh no, I'm negotiating. If I'm to change my behavior, you'd better be willing to do the same, or it's a double standard, imo and that I do *not* tolerate.

    Ok..I'm done for now

    /rant
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  10. #10
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    I can relate the ideas presented in this thread, and I certainly do share the frustration over Fi being misinterpreted by other types.

    However, if we're really going to be honest here, we must admit that Fi is selfish. Or self-focused by definition.

    This is not a bad thing in and of itself. Without a concept of "self," there is no Fi since Fi is such an intimate and personal thing as you guys have established so eloquently above.

    However, if we're not cognizant of the self-focused nature of Fi it could lead to problems and some serious blindspots.

    As a little boy, I did(still do), many err quirky Fi-driven activities. In one of them, I used to go outside alone and climb a tree that overlooked the river that ran by next to our house. I climbed the tree for the sole purpose of watching the sun set over the waters. Later on, at university in America, I found a bench under some trees in a secluded area. This bench faced towards the west, and so with a gleeful smile, I sat down and proceeded to watch the sunsets from there.

    Most of the people around me will probably go, "*shrug* it's just another sunset. big deal."

    But sunsets evoke such powerful "feelings" within me. I hesitate to use the word feeling because it's not so really an emotion. It's deeper and more abstract than that. It puts me in a certain mood where I feel so fully alive inside, as if I belonged up there with the purples, and oranges over the face of the clouds.

    Now, this is just one Fi-driven activity, and I have many more. The point is that that when I was younger this lead to a sense of alienation and serious disappointment, and misunderstanding with people. I realize now that it was rather selfish of me to not be able to see others' points-of-view. To not be able to see that sunsets don't have the same powerful effect on other people, and it was selfish and unreasonable of me to expect other people to treat them with the same sense of wonder that I do.


    Would it have helped my younger days if other people were also empathic enough to see that perhaps they should tread lightly around the things that meant a lot me? Yes, but how unrealistic and again self-centered is that? Besides, expecting anything from anyone, is akin to imposing an obligation on them.
    The purple sun won't heal my purple bruises :ouch:

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