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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplesunset View Post
    I can relate the ideas presented in this thread, and I certainly do share the frustration over Fi being misinterpreted by other types.

    However, if we're really going to be honest here, we must admit that Fi is selfish. Or self-focused by definition.
    Yep, it is probably the most selfish of the functions. It is all about "what do I like?" Until you have built a mountain of what-do-I-likes, everyone will see Fi as selfish. When your understanding is wide enough, some unselfish values become much more important than the selfish ones. But even then it is still selfish, as you selfishly pursue the unselfishness.

    And then there are the people who take one value and press it so hard that it makes their whole world view all twisted. The value might be unselfish but the way they handle it makes them intolerable to other people. I am talking about the absolutists here. Those guys who hate keeping animals in cages so they release them, and the animals die because they never learned to survive in the nature.

    So, what I am saying here, the key is to have a wide base of values, and to not try to force it to crystallize into something definite.

  2. #12
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    The thing that the "Fi is selfish " crowd forgets--or omits for the sake of making a point--is that what feels good to the Fi user are actions and mindsets that often incorporate the welfare of other people to a large degree.

    It doesn't "feel good" to be without a conscience.

  3. #13

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    Ok, forgive me here because I'm learning so if I'm off a little...

    To me, knowing myself helps me to understand others. Self-awareness is like building a feeling vocabulary. I analyze what I have experienced and build templets of understanding. Now, I have this huge imagination that can get me into trouble if I don't direct it or I get bored. BUT... I have found its best use is for conceptualizing people experiments. It's almost Kantian like... if you have studied philosophy you know what i'm talking about. You can take a person into your imagination put them into a situation and see the reaction... the emotions... and empathize. At that point, you can feel the possibilities and judge what might need to be said or done.

    It's like when you first start to study a subject and you have to gather the vocabulary and concepts before you can put them together and articulate your own ideas about them. Yes, you have your own opinions on the subject, but without the scholastic work behind it you would just be spouting ideas that are based on snap judgments. That's ok... for a beginning, but it has to be taken to deeper level where it becomes engrained into a personal view. A philosophy. Tied down into something substantial with practical use.

    I don't believe that you can ever completely be objective and the world would be less interesting to me if I could. I really enjoy other people's different perspectives. I like to learn and see something new. It adds to my repertoire of possibilities. Helps me grow and be more of service to other people. I'm constantly gathering new ideas and perspectives and then turning them around and using them in similar situations.

    Now... everyone has to start somewhere. I equate it to being a student. Learning is not selfish. Researching and thinking something through is not selfish. It's attempting to be responsible with something precious, a person's self.

    At least that's how I see it.
    "We ascribe beauty to that which is simple; which has no superfluous parts; which exactly answers its end; which stands related to all things; which is the mean of many extremes." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    The thing that the "Fi is selfish " crowd forgets--or omits for the sake of making a point--is that what feels good to the Fi user are actions and mindsets that often incorporate the welfare of other people to a large degree.

    It doesn't "feel good" to be without a conscience.
    +1

    Not to mention that some of the loudest complainers are so self-absorbed that they go around bashing other people and tell them to "toughen up."

    Yeah, so I can see how not having Fi has made them soooooo much less selfish.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Quiet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aeon View Post
    My Fi is my judging sense of this vs. that, with this having a different value than that, those values assigned from my internal hierarchy that is the sum total of my personal experience. Those values are grounded in their relation to people, both my own self and those that I experience as other.

    Fi is a tendency, or preference, in my mind. It is effortless, and presents itself before any other mode of feeling or thought.

    One thing I am sure of - Fi, in my conscious awareness, has nothing to do with emotion. It is, for me, a part of cognition. Emotion can inform through those functions that gather, and emotion can arise as a result of Fi judgement, but Fi is not part of my emotional awareness or experience.


    cheers,
    Ian
    This sounds like your P and J are fairly close.

  6. #16
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    I can relate to the feeling like my opinions could be perceived as selfish.

    Also agree with the comments that reminded us how selfish others' opinions are whether or not they realize it.

    What's the difference then?

  7. #17
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by targo View Post
    When Fi is over riding my Ne then I know there is a problem, I know there is something wrong.

    then another small piece of Ne has to go to work to find closure to solve what is over riding. then the build up of Ne over riding things gets to big again and Fi will/must justify ditching some of those concerns because it knows more over riding things will come and Ne favors curiousity. through experience my Fi knows most concerns that over ride Ne never get closure. yet, over time, the ideas from Ne do put a decent amount of counter weight on concerns conflicting value to allow for moving to the next. which, i guess, is just another justification to ditch another Ne blocking concern after enough counter weight was tossed on the concern in my values favor.

    However, alot of things are consistent. Fi knows precisely what doesn't fly and will keep bugging Ne's mellow for ideas. Ne will always ablige.
    the way it works for me boils down to *is it worth it*. if i feel it is, it'll be examined from many different angles. makes things easier for Ne that way.
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  8. #18
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    i believe my fi is expressed first through empathy and compassion...i don't think it's selfish. i think it places value on the self...mine and yours. the right to ones true self...the right to be authentic and genuine and demanding you and others be accepted for that. i think it's the refusal of mob mentality...i think it gives you courage to stand up for others if you perceive their basic human rights of being treated fairly and with compassion are being violated.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  9. #19
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    Fi scares the sh** out of me, because i know i am like this and it makes me feel so friggin lonely and out of place. how do you guys deal with it... i don't know... i wish i wasn't as difficult as i am. i am totally over-sensitive.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by yvonne View Post
    Fi scares the sh** out of me, because i know i am like this and it makes me feel so friggin lonely and out of place. how do you guys deal with it... i don't know... i wish i wasn't as difficult as i am. i am totally over-sensitive.
    It gets easier with practice... People usually hurt you because of their own shit, not yours.

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