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  1. #41
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    I clicked on this thread and my mind is boggled by what people are suggesting.

    Racism stems from Si and Te, and Fe and Fi is the savior? I suppose this exempt other functions, especially the intuitive ones. This is such a mouth-dropping misapplication of MBTI...I think I lost a little respect for some people in this thread. No one is stopping to question if this is taking it a little too far? Some of the replies in this thread illuminates how clearly some people need scapegoats and that's made all the more easier when you have a handy four-letter coding system to slot them into.

    Here's some light reading: go pick up a book on ideologies--you can start with Karl Marx since he's most famously explained what ideologies are, then you can move into some authors that deal with racial ideologies, I've personally found this one to be a good starting point.

    Once you've got a small grasp on what ideologies are (and now for my Victor moment...MBTI is one ) and what a complicated mess of psychology, sociology, geopolitics, and economic push/pull factors they are, if you armchair psychologists can pinpoint specific functions that give rise to racism then go back reread everything you just read but this time with some reading comprehension and critical thinking skills.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  2. #42
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I think I lost a little respect for some people
    Ditto.

  3. #43
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Ditto.
    Do tell, because in all honesty you were the who first suggested it.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  4. #44
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Do tell, because in all honesty you were the who first suggested it.
    Don't even.

  5. #45
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    The trouble with Fi is all the Fi threads.

  6. #46
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Don't even.
    Don't even what? You were the one who put the picture up with the post "If it weren't for Fi."

    What did you mean? Did you mean to suggest what you did and if so why?
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  7. #47
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Don't even what? You were the one who put the picture up with the post "If it weren't for Fi."

    What did you mean? Did you mean to suggest what you did and if so why?
    It must be nice to be able to wear a mod hat and speak your mind, but others can't.

  8. #48
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    It must be nice to be able to wear a mod hat and speak your mind, but others can't.
    No one is stopping you from speaking your mind. As long as you're not flaming and trolling anyone you are in no danger of anything.

    Would you care to explain what you meant by post #8?
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  9. #49
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Protean, it's not a misapplication of function theory to attempt to correlate value systems and "ideologies" with cognitive functions. You yourself admitted that ideologies stem from a culmination of psychological, sociological, geopolitical and economic factors, and I'd argue that personality is a culmination of these factors as well.

    That being said, there are certain functions and combinations of functions that may be inclined to produce a racist frame of mind. This doesn't mean that anybody with said combinations of functions is going to be racist, nor does it mean that anybody lacking such combinations won't be racist. There's nothing wrong with formulating abstract associations and looking for trends, though.

    Furthermore, correlating function theory with racism is certainly not a "scapegoat" for racism. When has anybody ever tried to use their personality and psyche as a scapegoat? That would go something like, "I know I'm a terrible person, but it's just because of my personality and cognitive processes, I swear!!" That's not a very convincing excuse, imho...

  10. #50
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I clicked on this thread and my mind is boggled by what people are suggesting.

    Racism stems from Si and Te, and Fe and Fi is the savior? I suppose this exempt other functions, especially the intuitive ones. This is such a mouth-dropping misapplication of MBTI...I think I lost a little respect for some people in this thread. No one is stopping to question if this is taking it a little too far? Some of the replies in this thread illuminates how clearly some people need scapegoats and that's made all the more easier when you have a handy four-letter coding system to slot them into.

    Here's some light reading: go pick up a book on ideologies--you can start with Karl Marx since he's most famously explained what ideologies are, then you can move into some authors that deal with racial ideologies, I've personally found this one to be a good starting point.

    Once you've got a small grasp on what ideologies are (and now for my Victor moment...MBTI is one ) and what a complicated mess of psychology, sociology, geopolitics, and economic push/pull factors they are, if you armchair psychologists can pinpoint specific functions that give rise to racism then go back reread everything you just read but this time with some reading comprehension and critical thinking skills.
    What are you surprised about? This is the inevitable result of folk typology. Its purpose is not understand any phenomenon about the world, but to give people an opportunity to enage in a group activity. This forum is composed mostly of angsty adolescents and people in their 20ies who attain communion with another by alienating the plebeans. That is the joy of being an 'Intuitive' in this community. The very definition of this term now refers to anyone whose superb intelligence or uniquness of character alienates him or her from the masses. This, of course is almost never due to a fault of the hero, he or she is estranged only because of the stupidity and the cruelty of the multitude. Since such qualities are definitive of racism, it is only fitting that this community shall be inclined to think that there is an intimate connection between this social plight and the character of the masses who are symbolically represented by the Si and Te types.

    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    Protean, it's not a misapplication of function theory to attempt to correlate value systems and "ideologies" with cognitive functions. There are certain functions and combinations of functions that may be inclined to produce a racist frame of mind. This doesn't mean that anybody with said combinations of functions is going to be racist, nor does it mean that anybody lacking such combinations won't be racist. There's nothing wrong with formulating abstract associations and looking for trends, though.

    Furthermore, correlating function theory with racism is certainly not a "scapegoat" for racism. When has anybody ever tried to use their personality and psyche as a scapegoat? That would go something like, "I know I'm a terrible person, but it's just because of my personality and cognitive processes, I swear!!" That's not a very convincing excuse, imho...
    Types do predispose people towards certain behaviors and values, however, what values or behaviors a person does choose has more to do with his socio-economical circumstances than with his temperament. Unsurprisingly, temperament distribution tends to stay consistent throughout the globe, however the poor and war-ravaged nations are by far more prone to racist upheavals than the wealthy and politically stable. It is a mistake to regard type or any aspect of a person's nature as a significant contributor to a social phenomenon that is almost exclusively a result of social conditioning rather than human nature.

    In other words, although it is the case that people of some functions in most societies are more likely to develop racist attitudes than others, this does not tell us anything insightful or important about the nature of racism or its cause. All natural dispositions and therefore all types have a very low influence on the creation and maintenance of this social evil and it therefore even the most racist prone of cognitive types shall have little to contribute to attitudes of ethnic discrimination.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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