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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPER View Post
    NF said she wanted to be friends (doesnt everyone say that? lol) and I was like alright cool. TBH I think NF wouldve been better as a friend than GF any way so I was cool with that.

    I think an INTJ I know put it best when he responded, "Why the f**k would I want to be your friend?". There is something almost evil about making someone hold onto a close connection and leaving them one step away. If it is going that way, many people would like closure either way, especially if they did care. They can move on and meet others, or get closer to you. Expecting them to be happy about being left in between is about the same as the catholic church expecting no one to masturbate. If they decide to try, cool! You can't really call them out if they don't though.

    On that note, I think the topic doesn't have much to do with MBTi and has a lot to do with relationships. "All's fair in love and war". They are both extremes of humanity where simple logic doesn't cut it, or describe the behaviours of 500 million other people of the same personality type, or a few billion people of the same temperament. It's about you and her. You broke up, she moved on (in some sense). The context in which you could expect a different person to show the same behaviour analogously seems quite narrow. She will maybe have the same human behaviours as other people, but the choice probably comes down to the specific relationship and what works best for her. With this sort of thing I wouldn't give MBTi too much credit over the effects of life experience and learning.

    p.s. I'm an NF, and I would've gone the friends with benefits, or gone the be friends with you if I thought they would be good.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPER View Post

    My point - NF women use guys for relationships. Once they see I;m not into the whole relationship thing, they drop me as a friend. I'm like just because things wouldnt work out that way, does that mean we cant talk anymore


    NF women are users.
    I corrected your post.

    You're going to get roasted here, but stay true to yourself, brother. I think the people who disagree with you, misunderstand what you're trying to say.
    A breach of communication brought on by the typical denial and defensive-ness of NF women.

    If you don't want to deal with getting dropped anymore, try a balanced NT woman. They're rare, but they're gold.

    I think the NF qualities manifest themselves better in men than they do in women. but this deserves a separate thread where I can flesh out my ideas better.
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  3. #43
    Senior Member thinkinjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Yeah, I think it probably had more to do with how they felt with the arrangement that you came up with which they seemingly didn't even have input into. No one really wants to hear, "You're sure not the girl of my dreams and I don't want to date you though you clearly like me, but I'd still like to have sex with you while keeping my options open."

    Yep, sounds like a user to me...


    When you say stuff like that it makes us feel like we are worthless to you except for sex, which can pretty much be provided by anybody. That's a slap in the face on any level. I am surprised her reaction surprises you. Do you understand where she's coming from at least in this perspective?
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  4. #44
    Senior Member thinkinjazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by megm87 View Post
    There have been times in relationships where I have been really fighting nail and tooth for things to work out (I am truly the notorious impossible to break up with ENFP who has to make sure every single possibility has been explored before 'giving up' on the relationship) while oddly in the back of my head I almost agree with the other person. It's like I know one day things will probably not work out because I foresee the problems that will develop/the ones already present getting worse but I haven't exhausted my Ne curiosity about how the relationship will play out. It's like even if I see the train heading for the cliff I have to stay on just to see how it will land. It's infuriating for me and I'm sure for the guys I've dated. Anyway, sometimes after convincing the guy that we should stay in the relationship and pursue other avenues I start to have this dreaded feeling that we should have just ended then - however, I am glad that I am postponing the inevitable pain. But after awhile (in your NFs case I guess only a few days) I start to feel almost guilty for convincing the other person that we should most definitely stay together when I, too know things won't work out and realize that postponing the pain will only make it worse. I then will tell the person 'well actually I think you were right' or 'I'm really sorry I've been doing some thinking and you had some pretty good points when we were discussing where our relationship is headed last week' etc. How confusing that must be for you guys/gals that come upon us in your relationships! It seems like we want nothing more than to be with you (which is the truth) and that we are fully convinced we can make the relationship work (not so much the truth, just what we want to be the truth and want to convince even ourselves is the truth), and then randomly a short time later come back saying that you were right all along and that we think that the relationship should indeed end (out of seemingly nowhere to the other person involved.) Hope that helped! Other NFs let me know if I am the only crazy one who has suffered from this.
    You really should just break up with them as soon as you know it's not going to work out. You really should adhere to what your N and F are telling you and not let the EP parts distract you from what you already know is true. It's better for all parties this way. So yes, you are suffering from yourself.

    Sorry to be hard on you. I really do know how you feel.
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  5. #45
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    In case this thread gets locked, and I don't get a chance to clarify myself:

    The OP (Super) was friends with an NF female. One day, he told her "there's too much crap going on in my life right now, so I don't want to become serious with you. But I still care about you as a friend and I expect some err... "benefits" every now and then *hint* *hint* *wink* *wink* bow chiki wow wow "

    A couple days later, the friend tells the OP: " there's too much crap going on in my life right now, so I don't want to become serious with you. But I don't care about you anymore, and I'd rather not see you again. You are permanently out of my life. Our previous friendship meant absolutely nothing. End of discussion."


    Now, does this clarify the OP's perspective? Yes, I think so.


    And he's bringing up a valid point that I have experienced myself. NF women can drop you off like a sack of hot potatoes if she suddenly finds a reason. To people in the OP's position, it feels as if your previous frendship/love didn't even matter at all to her if she could just suddenly drop it, and forget about it. It makes you question her sincerity. Was the friendship/love real if she could just suddenly delete you out of her life like that?


    This is what it felt like from the OP's perspective. He felt like she just dropped him off and their previous friendship meant nothing.

    But most of the women in this thread failed to see his perspective because they were too busy judging the guy. If anything, you should commend the O.P. for his honesty with his friend. He told her up front what his intentions were.


    Also to add: the O.P. and I are at polar opposites when it comes to what we want out of our relationships with women.

    The OP is one extreme: The type of guy who is okay with having friends you would occasionally poke every now and then.

    I am on the other extreme: Old-fashioned idealistic romantic who is saving himself for marriage.

    I could have judged the OP and say, "you're a typical man whore" or something like that. But I didn't. Instead, I tried to understand his perspective.

    Understanding something, doesn't mean you have to agree with it. Similarly, disagreeing with something, doesn't mean that you shouldn't understand it. I abhor casual sex and the culture surrounding it, but that doesn't mean I should simply judge the O.P. and not try to understand what he was trying to say.
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  6. #46
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    So where is your understanding of the NF-female? My best guess: the connection she was hoping to have with him didn't happen, worse even, he considered her potentially an easy lay (Im not saying she's right to react like this but it's understandable). They fought, she didn't wanna keep fighting so they made up (no details on how that went were included). After that she gave him the same line (emotional vulnerability I'm guessing, which caused her to give a defensive response and save some face perhaps), after which she decided that the connection they had was not what she was looking for. Anyone, and I do mean anyone, has the right to back out of a relationship/situation that is no longer beneficial to them. Otherwise you become resentful, feel used and ultmately get drained by that connection. She made her choice after he set the terms he was willing to give her (note, he too had the right to decide that her proposal was not the kind of connection he was looking for), terms she clearly did not care for. She has the same right as he does, to decide whether or not she still wants to be part of that situation, as it is not what she had in mind. Granted, maybe she shouldn't have said she'd go back to being friends. Avoidance is often preferred by NFs to conflict. That's the *only* thing you can blame her for. Just as you can blame him for being insensitive.

    Basically, a lot of wounded pride and hurt feelings in this situation, which seems to have led to a generalized feeling of resentment and frustration with the OP towards NFs, imo
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  7. #47
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPER View Post

    2. Doubt she fell that hard.
    Oh right, ok, so everything's absolutely fine then. Why should she have any sort of problem, or cut you off, if YOU "doubt she fell that hard?"

    I don't get the impression that you understand either NFs, or people generally, that well, particularly not in a romantic context...
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  8. #48
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    If you like someone romantically and they are clearly not interested in you in that way, it is not only painful to continue the relationship, it is dangerous to your self-worth.

    Already you feel you are being rejected on an emotional level. Continuing the friendship with someone who is not interested in having a relationship with you but is interested in having sex with you when you are already attracted to them and infatuated with them leaves you vulnerable to succumbing to a physical relationship that you are not ultimately going to be comfortable with.

    The guy in question is going to be strongly tempted to hint that more could eventually come of the relationship when he's feeling especially horny and then later deny that he ever implied any such thing.

    I have observed situations where a woman will play along with that kind of scenario hoping he will change his mind eventually, but it rarely plays out that way. She usually winds up wasting a lot of time and getting hurt, which is kind of what she deserves for being dishonest.

    It's just better not to put yourself in that kind of situation. It's not about a lack of initial feeling it's about pragmatism and self-preservation. If the potential for a relationship has been explicitly ruled out and you don't feel like you can emotionally accept that regardless of what your brain might want, it is better and more ethical to end the relationship than to proceed with unintentional or intentional ulterior motives, IMO.

    Anybody who expects you to forgo self-preservation for their own comfort and convenience is obviously attempting to use you in some way. Nobody is obligated to continue a non-parenting relationship that is not symbiotic or one that is symbiotic, but no longer desirable.
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  9. #49
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    I've been dropped by NFs before too.

    I think it was because they created an image in their mind of my potential self and became infatuated with that, and when reality hit them that I'm me and not potential me, they suddenly saw me as not a good part of their life anymore.

    That's a really simplified explanation, but it's one I've talked about with NFs before and they have all agreed that they have done the same thing with others before.
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  10. #50
    Symbolic Herald Vasilisa's Avatar
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    I will admit to dropping people.

    I used to think it had to do with my childhood. I was on the move so much, I was used to people falling out of my life. When I became adult I figured it was just habit. But there is less and less excuse for it in this modern age. So, I am not proud of this.

    On the one hand, there are certain relationships that become toxic and I can feel proud to say, "I cut toxic people out of my life". But there are other relationships that aren't toxic, and some of those I just let slide. I don't make the effort that I know I should. Only recently was I reading through my old Keirsey & Bates book did I find some passages that made me understand it is something this temperament type is prone to:
    Quote Originally Posted by Keirsey & Bates 1978
    The NFs relationships can fall into a pattern of enthusiastic anticipation accompanied by a considerable investment of effort and emotion, ending in a disappointment that what could have been was not. The NF is seldom miserly in the energy and time he is willing to devote to a relationship, especially as it is developing. A like return need not be the quid pro quo for the NF to continue investing generously, as long as some response is forthcoming....

    Once an NF believes that he or she knows all there is to know about another, disinterest sets in; restlessness and a sense of boredom develop. ....

    Although NFs become restless if others are dependent, NFs have in their own personalities characteristics that promote this dependency. They pride themselves on being sensitive to others and caring about them. It is almost impossible for NFs to be unaware of others psychological needs. Yet the NF becomes restless when these ties begin to bind, as they do when the amount of emotional input becomes a psychological overload for the NF. At this point the NF can seem cruel, insisting unexpectedly that the other sand on his own two feet. The NF does not mean to be unkind: he or she is dimply disconnecting a relationship which can no longer be handled in spite of the reality that the NF created this dependent relationship through expressions of empathy and unique understanding.
    Maybe that last bit is what the OP meant by users.

    I attest to dropping people if they start to treat me like a toxic waste dump for all their drama and problems. In a way I can see it being turnabout, Maybe I am more sensitive and some perceive that as weakness, but my inner life is so rich that not having you around won't even bother me, whereas my presence by you will be greatly missed. How is that for weakness? These are darker thoughts, and mine alone, I am not projecting them on others.
    Last edited by Vasilisa; 02-03-2010 at 05:43 PM. Reason: add more text
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