User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 30

  1. #11
    Junior Member a24kar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    22

    Default

    I star to become very alienated from reality as well if I have no social contact for a day or so. This rarely happens to me now, however, when it has happened in the past I have felt like my mind was almost floating away into a dream. I could be making myself lunch and be thinking about the most abstract, day-dreamy, symbolical ideas. I think, perhaps, for INFJ's although we enjoy/need time and space... we also need some proximity to other human life to keep us tethered to this planet.

  2. #12
    Badoom~ Skyward's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    infj
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Posts
    1,087

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by a24kar View Post
    I star to become very alienated from reality as well if I have no social contact for a day or so. This rarely happens to me now, however, when it has happened in the past I have felt like my mind was almost floating away into a dream. I could be making myself lunch and be thinking about the most abstract, day-dreamy, symbolical ideas. I think, perhaps, for INFJ's although we enjoy/need time and space... we also need some proximity to other human life to keep us tethered to this planet.
    Yeah, I think also when we are in a dynamic social area, like a party or club, or with a lot of friends at once, we are forced to use both Fe and Se a LOT. Se, from what I see in myself, is used in INFJs to just 'let loose' and react to things. It's like pinball and I find it annoying that my Se function is used more than my Fe function. Or at least, I don't know when I am using Fe if at all.

    I find, too, that I can feel very alone, even among friends or caring family. Anyone have an idea why that is?
    'Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius and its better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring.' - Marilyn Monroe

    This is who I am, escapist, paradise-seeker.
    -Nightwish

    Anthropology Major out of Hamline University. St. Paul, Minnesota.

  3. #13
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    3,692

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyward View Post
    I find, too, that I can feel very alone, even among friends or caring family. Anyone have an idea why that is?
    Don't know if it's for the same reason, but I get this way too. This is the best I've been able to articulate why I think it happens:

    I think people are a lot like mirrors for each other. We look into an actual mirror to assess our physical appearance, but look at other people to assess our... personality (for lack of better word. maybe soul? dunno). When we make a joke and other people laugh, it's like a reflection that lets us know we are funny.


    INFJs feel such a plagueing need to feel understood. When people don't 'get' us, when they don't understand the meaning we are trying to convey- it's like there's no 'mirror' there, no reflection of ourselves in the other person- making us feel alone in their presence.

    (edit: ) When the reflection we see (of ourselves) in another person makes sense to us, we feel connected to them. When that reflection doesn't make sense to us, we don't feel connected. And I think INFJs are prone to noticing when a reflection indicates the other person doesn't fully understand what we have tried to communicate.


    This is just a theory I have about it. I hope it makes sense, I don't have time right now to figure out how to say in a clearer way. But feeling 'alone' around people who I believe care about me has long been a problem of mine as well.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  4. #14
    Badoom~ Skyward's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    infj
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Posts
    1,087

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Don't know if it's for the same reason, but I get this way too. This is the best I've been able to articulate why I think it happens:

    I think people are a lot like mirrors for each other. We look into an actual mirror to assess our physical appearance, but look at other people to assess our... personality (for lack of better word. maybe soul? dunno). When we make a joke and other people laugh, it's like a reflection that lets us know we are funny.


    INFJs feel such a plagueing need to feel understood. When people don't 'get' us, when they don't understand the meaning we are trying to convey- it's like there's no 'mirror' there, no reflection of ourselves in the other person- making us feel alone in their presence.

    (edit: ) When the reflection we see (of ourselves) in another person makes sense to us, we feel connected to them. When that reflection doesn't make sense to us, we don't feel connected. And I think INFJs are prone to noticing when a reflection indicates the other person doesn't fully understand what we have tried to communicate.


    This is just a theory I have about it. I hope it makes sense, I don't have time right now to figure out how to say in a clearer way. But feeling 'alone' around people who I believe care about me has long been a problem of mine as well.
    That does make sense (and makes me wonder how Fi works in that theory), and the sensitivity to the mirror makes us more prone to just 'fall off the face of the earth' to some people, or drop relationships.

    One thing I found out about changing my mood, maybe it's related to an inferior Se, is that I tend to get out of a depression if I just turn into a caffeinated clown for a while... granted it only works if at least a couple people are amused by it. Anyone else who gives me odd looks just amuse ME then. Maybe that's what they mean about giving your inferior function what it wants so everything else can work correctly.

    I'm just glad I found something in my personality that's useful
    'Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius and its better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring.' - Marilyn Monroe

    This is who I am, escapist, paradise-seeker.
    -Nightwish

    Anthropology Major out of Hamline University. St. Paul, Minnesota.

  5. #15
    Member Tycho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    INFJs feel such a plagueing need to feel understood. When people don't 'get' us, when they don't understand the meaning we are trying to convey- it's like there's no 'mirror' there, no reflection of ourselves in the other person- making us feel alone in their presence.
    I like your theory. I've heard non-INFJ's (even sensors) talk that way too - that they feel lonely, even when surrounded by tons of friends.

    I think we can not really love ourselves. We can love things that we do, that we feel, that we think, but that's not what we are.

    If we really focus our minds completely on ourselves, we feel nothing at all; do we? However, if I focus my mind completely on anyone else, I can have a wealth of feelings.

    So what I feel for myself, is kind of like a vacuum, that others need to fill - with love, or with even more emptiness..

  6. #16
    Badoom~ Skyward's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    infj
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Posts
    1,087

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tycho View Post
    I like your theory. I've heard non-INFJ's (even sensors) talk that way too - that they feel lonely, even when surrounded by tons of friends.

    I think we can not really love ourselves. We can love things that we do, that we feel, that we think, but that's not what we are.

    If we really focus our minds completely on ourselves, we feel nothing at all; do we? However, if I focus my mind completely on anyone else, I can have a wealth of feelings.

    So what I feel for myself, is kind of like a vacuum, that others need to fill - with love, or with even more emptiness..
    People look toward riches and fame because then there will be a lot of SOMETHING to fill the gap, but then you're only looking at yourself and not with the mirror. Maybe this means we need something to look forward to in order to live life, and people to look forward to us. When you become a celebrity, you lose that ability in most places because once youre under the limelight, people are just looking at you under a microscope. I think celebrities are in the best position to value a real friend because of how hostile the rest of humanity is to them.

    Without a goal, a person loses self worth. The goal could be simple, like 'play baseball as much as possible and get really really good at it' but it is still something to focus the mind. The goal could be to not have a goal, but wouldn't that have a deeper feeling inside of it?

    I think with the written word, so I hope this whole thing makes sense since my thoughts are pretty jumbled.

    Theosophical Tangent: I tend to think in terms of 'God created us in his likeness.' how far does that go? Does human greed count? Maybe with his understanding, he understands this Mirror and how necessary it is. Maybe that is why there is suffering in the world because he wants something to constantly fix. If there wasn't something to fix he wouldn't 'feel' anything. This is a very interesting idea to me because then it is a way to support Intelligent Design. He does it the long way because it means more to him as a Supreme Being? Either way, how are we to know what his deep goal is? Maybe it is within ourselves?
    'Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius and its better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring.' - Marilyn Monroe

    This is who I am, escapist, paradise-seeker.
    -Nightwish

    Anthropology Major out of Hamline University. St. Paul, Minnesota.

  7. #17
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    3,692

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyward View Post
    the sensitivity to the mirror makes us more prone to just 'fall off the face of the earth' to some people, or drop relationships.
    Yeah, we can often seem like effective 'mirrors' for people who don't seem to us like effective 'mirrors' for us. In other words- I think people often feel a sense of connection with us that can elude us (we don't feel that same connection); so I guess connections can be severed because we didn't realize there was a 'connection' for them in the first place. Is that what you meant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyward View Post
    That does make sense (and makes me wonder how Fi works in that theory)
    I don't know about Fi specifically, but I think over-introverting ourselves can result in us *thinking* the other person can't be an effective mirror (i.e. thinking there's no way to connect) or that mirrors aren't important; when the truth of it is that we aren't willing to compromise the meaning we want to share for the sake of connecting with someone. But then- like Thompson said- (*3* on previous page, in my own words here) those 'reflections' from other people are how we actually know who we are.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  8. #18
    Badoom~ Skyward's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    infj
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Posts
    1,087

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Yeah, we can often seem like effective 'mirrors' for people who don't seem to us like effective 'mirrors' for us. In other words- I think people often feel a sense of connection with us that can elude us (we don't feel that same connection); so I guess connections can be severed because we didn't realize there was a 'connection' for them in the first place. Is that what you meant?

    -------------

    I don't know about Fi specifically, but I think over-introverting ourselves can result in us *thinking* the other person can't be an effective mirror (i.e. thinking there's no way to connect) or that mirrors aren't important; when the truth of it is that we aren't willing to compromise the meaning we want to share for the sake of connecting with someone. But then- like Thompson said- (*3* on previous page, in my own words here) those 'reflections' from other people are how we actually know who we are.
    Yeah, that's right. The hardest part, though, is that sometimes it feels like we can't help but BE over-introverted until something happens that knocks us out of neutral and into drive. It happens mostly without us trying, so it takes work to stay 'in gear.' Once I get into gear, I can sense when I'm falling back and can try and stay away from it, if I'm already in neutral, it's a depressed 'I can't do anything about it' feeling that is only true because of the depressed mood.
    'Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius and its better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring.' - Marilyn Monroe

    This is who I am, escapist, paradise-seeker.
    -Nightwish

    Anthropology Major out of Hamline University. St. Paul, Minnesota.

  9. #19
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    3,692

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tycho View Post
    I think we can not really love ourselves. We can love things that we do, that we feel, that we think, but that's not what we are.

    If we really focus our minds completely on ourselves, we feel nothing at all; do we? However, if I focus my mind completely on anyone else, I can have a wealth of feelings.

    So what I feel for myself, is kind of like a vacuum, that others need to fill - with love, or with even more emptiness..
    We don’t get to reap the emotional benefits of even the most profound theories or ideas if we can’t find anyone to understand them. We need to see it reflected in another person before we can actually cash in emotionally on the rewards because the unconscious Se impulses (as Thompson puts it) are always lurking- in every shadow and behind every corner- reminding us that it’s only true in our own head.

    It’s kind of like the difference between eating dinner vs. eating a picture of dinner. Forming a picture of dinner- on our own- can be useful towards the end of creating a completely amazing dinner: but it will never be useful if it stays in picture form. We need to change it into an actual dinner- by sharing it with a person in the external world- in order to get any actual nourishment from it.

    Of course, sometimes it is emotionally gratifying to indulge in theory- even if we don't share it- but there is a threshold. If we do too much of it, it just starts feeling empty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyward View Post
    The hardest part, though, is that sometimes it feels like we can't help but BE over-introverted until something happens that knocks us out of neutral and into drive. It happens mostly without us trying, so it takes work to stay 'in gear.' Once I get into gear, I can sense when I'm falling back and can try and stay away from it, if I'm already in neutral, it's a depressed 'I can't do anything about it' feeling that is only true because of the depressed mood.
    That over-introverted ‘neutral’ position sneaks up on me, too. I just instinctively gravitate towards introverted judgment. I’m not sure that’s really such a bad thing, though. I don’t think it’s possible to stay in gear all the time; at least, I know it isn’t possible for me. I think the key is to remember this: try changing the “depressed ‘I can’t do anything about it’ feeling” reaction to the reluctant ‘Oh crap, time to extravert’ reaction. It’s not like the latter is an appealing realization (“cultivating shallowness”), but it feels a lot better than the disempowering ‘I can’t do anything about it’ alternative. Floating in neutral isn’t that bad when you remember you can get out when you want to. And it’s just a safer bet, I think, to work on an escape ladder out of that seemingly bottomless Ni pit than it is to try to remember not to fall in it in the first place.

    There’s a lot of truth in the phrase ‘loneliness is not being able to be alone’, but it ought to come with the disclaimer that it can be taken too far when we idealize it. I think movies and literature sort of glorify the ‘independent thinker’ character- the one who can come up with an immaculate independent moral compass without needing anyone’s support or approval- and it’s somewhat unrealistic because there’s no accounting for that Se bitch-slap. Those unconscious Se impulses will surface and bite anyone (or maybe just Ni doms? dunno) in the ass for trying to reach that ideal.

    Be glad you’re figuring it out now. I spent the bulk of my early twenties thinking it was a weakness to need other people to understand me: mistake. And so far, I’ve spent my thirties unraveling that myth and trying to find a balance. It would have been nice if I’d found introvert/extrovert information sooner.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  10. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    291

    Default

    Ah, that deep feeling Fi feeling, how it makes us wonder what we feel and how we feel, but never seems to lead anywhere. Yet, oddly and curiously enough, it all leads to the same conclusions and answers. The worst part is that even if someone gave us these answers, we would not learn them because we did not find out for ourselves. Real life answers are not so simple because you need the whole construct and pattern of thought to reach the conclusion so that it makes sense. Talk about frustrating.

Similar Threads

  1. What are y'all like at work, through the cognitive function lens?
    By 1104 in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-05-2015, 09:31 PM
  2. [INFJ] im confused???how does the shadow functions works??
    By chado in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-08-2015, 10:39 AM
  3. [INFJ] The INFJ Doorslam
    By Eileen in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 140
    Last Post: 06-16-2011, 09:02 PM
  4. Working the Overpowering Function Yo-yo
    By Skyward in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-02-2010, 02:08 AM
  5. [INFJ] The INFJ Shadow
    By MrRandom in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-06-2008, 06:41 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO