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  1. #21
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    I've done my thinking and taken notes from you guys

    I am going to -
    Encourage instead of coming across as critical/judgmental
    Not take his words to serious
    Allow him more space/time alone especially online
    Let him enjoy his dark side, lol, instead of trying to promote a healthier outlook (he'll do that in his own time)
    Place less expectations on him and be more patient


    At the end of the day he'll only tell me what i need to know so by being true to myself and giving this relationship my all, if it doesn't work out due to mistrust/deception, at least i can walk away (should it happen) knowing i couldn't of done any more.

    I can't say fairer than that.




    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    I've been with an INFP for a little over a year now, and I'd like to share my experience.

    I have to admit that at the beginning of the relationship I was perplexed by this kind of 'talk', too. To me, words are pretty binding, and if I say to someone I'm going to do something, I intend to do it. My INFP said a lot of things -- good and bad -- for example, that he was going to drop out of college, that he was going to become an alcoholic, that he was going join the monastery, that he was going to quit smoking (yep). He said all this in a non-joking manner, so at first I panicked. I started a lot of discussions about why he should and shouldn't do something. Then, later, I realized that he wasn't even that serious. He was simply voicing out whatever idea Ne throws at him and his Fi agrees with at the moment. So it's more like "This sounds like a good idea" rather than "I'm definitely going to do this".

    One thing I notice is that for J types, a lot of things are very carefully deliberated so that by the time they come out in reality, there is already some degree of stability to it. P types seem to be more okay with doing/saying something, then taking back their words or admitting it doesn't work or that they are wrong.

    However, for more serious matters, like getting a job, I think your INFP knows he should be doing something. That's why he keeps talking about it. But being jobless AND heartbroken (from his last relationship) is very depressing. Maybe he just doesn't have the strength yet. I've learned that INFPs do get things done, and you can help them with a (very) gentle nudge in the right direction. But if you start pressing, they seem to collapse under the weight of Te and end up being more depressed and do nothing.
    Thank you for that
    Oh, he is never wrong. He has a way with words that even if he does get caught out (i pay attention to detail), he just turns it around. Although he has stated that if he is wrong, he'll admit to it, he has never admitted it to me, lol. I am not going to take it seriously anymore, i can't.
    I suppose it is not really important anyway .. In the grand scheme of things.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  2. #22
    seor member colmena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    I was attracted to him because he spoke of transparency and honesty in a relationship to which i was thinking to myself 'YES finally' lol.
    He's an idealist. He's telling you what he wants to be, not what he is.
    In fact, it's likely he's just carrying over the perceived folly from his previous relationship.
    ..as well as telling you what you want to hear.

    Now we are in a relationship the only transparency he is willing to show me is the ones on his terms .. Honesty comes during discussions but also when he has been caught out .. He has told me that he feels like i judge him which is not the whole truth .. He talks about stuff but that is all it is, just talk .. So it is not so much that i judge him, i have in essence stopped paying attention to his talk .. Because he retracts it. He talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk.
    He says something stupid, then is judged. He's insecure; he's being defensive.

    I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't about simple day-to-day communication. He could be trying too hard whilst underestimating your ability to see through the pretense.

    He had a discussion yesterday which has really got me thinking about what he has been saying to me .. He writes beautiful poetry, and the women love it, lol .. I asked him why it must always be dark and why never light and positive, to which he replied that people don't want to read happy poems, and this is how he'll make his millions (he was joking), maybe he thougth i was criticizing him, i wasn't, it was just a question
    "Goya, honey, your black paintings are totally rad, but don't you think they could use more bunny rabbits? And maybe rainbows?"

    Asinine. The content is his. Try to understand it, by all means, but not to directly change it.

    .. We also spoke about how much time he spends online to which he replied that being online is his diary and i basically don't have access to his diary .. I looked at a reply he was going to post, this was not good idea, lol.
    Couldn't parse this.

    He has told me that he is a private person and will never give me 100%, i never asked for 100% .. I just wanted the transparency and honesty he spoke of beforehand.
    Hollywood posturing.

    He tells me short term pain for long term gain.
    I would just dump him right now.

    I know this all looks bad .. He isn't a bad person just in a period of transition, but i am now wondering if we are on 2 different planets. I don't want to become passive but i just don't know how to communicate with him .. He doesn't like that i talk and process information thus coming to a conclusion yet when i am to the point and blunt, it can come across as a tad harsh .. I don't know what to do.
    What?

    That's a disturbing clause. I'll take it as preference for your candidness over rationale.

    If you can give me some insight, then i would be very grateful. I am open to ideas ..
    He wants to get a job but he doesn't because he has depression.
    He wants to stop smoking but then smokes.
    He wants to delete his internet accounts because people are stupid but remains on them.
    If he has no intention of doing any of the things he says, just don't mention them in the first place .. I do scratch my head when he says things, lol.
    More idealist incongruity.
    He knows what he wants, but he doesn't have the ability/motivation to affect change.

    'He wants to get a job but he doesn't because he has depression.'
    He has depression because he doesn't have a job. - Lack of self-respect.

    'He wants to delete his internet accounts because people are stupid but remains on them.'
    Addiction to reward; compounds arrogance.
    Supplant this reward system with real-life rewards (Work, Art, etc.).
    That he's divulging his dissonance to you may well be a cry for help.


    HE PROBABLY REQUIRES HELP


    I ask everyone for help. I have my own skills, but traditional masculine expectations of independence are not presently one of them. I don't whinge about it, I ask for fucking help. I ask hard. I'm nice; people seem to like helping me.

    So i am not going insane then thinking i am doing something wrong, lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by saslou from personalitycafe
    I am just curious as i am starting to think it may be me who is broken .. I don't like being broken .. I also don't like this negative thinking.


    Shut the fuck up. You're adorable, and trying so hard. Don't upset me.



    He has also told me that by being honest, not only does it hurt himself and others, but to see himself as a failure is not a good thing.
    Depressed. Perfectionist (incidentally, also a procrastinator: compounds depression).

    Advice: Seek therapy. Exercise (will get sexier as he gets better).

    I don't get him, i am struggling to understand even when he tells me that he is so easy to understand .. See, to me people are like books and with many i can read just like that, but i can't with him so i need a manual. I am also scared he might be using me so i think to myself, just give it a little time and things might change in that he'll be in a happier place and we can start having some fun. I want to believe he is genuine and honest and i get that he needs his own space and time, which i am all for. Oh, i don't know
    And here's your vulnerability. You don't trust him. I've thought about him enough to want to look after him, but you really don't need someone you don't feel you can trust.

    I have to wonder if it is me who is broken .. Maybe my expectations of how a relationship should be is none obtainable, standards to high .. I have come so far in the last year and i am proud of myself yet i am scared that he may have bad intentions. I don't want to be a doormat yet i have to trust him at some point. Bollocks
    You're really cute, but it sounds like you're both under 50% right now, and perhaps drawn to each other because of it.

    To have a shot at it: isn't the ESFJ the caregiver? Well, give care.

    Replace the rewards derived from computer use with real-world rewards.
    Poetry readings? Perhaps self-publish?
    Help him find work he'll enjoy - volunteering's a good start for trying things out. Also, being with others down on their luck, he may feel a little less self-conscious. He'll soon find his confidence.
    At the moment he's lost perspective and may just need someone to take off the blinders.

    If your nudges don't work, break his computer. Smash it to shit.

    Therapy. Diagnose any depression, apathy, social anxiety, etc.

    The art is really important. That's his source of personal pride. Encourage what he's already doing if you can.

    Exercise. It's almost amusing how effective exercise is.
    And how little foresight anyone has of its effectiveness.


    Let me know how you get on with him. I remember seeing a program with a fiery ESFJ costume rental shop owner. She was sweet and mad all over - I was crushing for ages.

    Oh, and INFPs can be amazing. I may well be one, and I totally shed a man tear while reading this in the library today. He might like it, too.


    Here's some post-script reading from yours-truly-pedantic-jerkface:

    To and Too - Glossary of Usage - Commonly Confused Words - To versus Too
    http://badges.mypersonality.info/badge/0/6/68764.png
    Ti Ne Fi Ni

    -How beautiful, this pale Endymion hour.
    -What are you talking about?
    -Endymion, my dear. A beautiful youth possessed by the moon.
    -Well, forget about him and get to bed.
    -Yes, my dear.

  3. #23
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    My ISFJ mom asks me this ALL the time . "Why must you always be so dark?". Positive emotion is easier to process internally, more acceptable to express directly, but can also feel more risky, since positive emotion often wants reciprocation. For me, I either bask in the positive emotion and feel no need to express it, or I may not express it because it actually makes me feel vulnerable to do so. If I do express it, then the normal means such as a smile or hug or verbal affection usually works.
    Completely agree.

    I've had to learn to express the warmth I feel...it's not easy, but again, positive encouragement will usually make me more comfortable in doing so.
    I find that interesting. It's reversed in my case.

    As a child, I expressed emotions so freely. It felt natural to be affectionate and hug and kiss people whenever I felt the urge to (my mother is a Fi-dom; that explains it, huh? ). The older I'd become, though, I was reprimanded for being so warm and affectionate. I had to repress many of my feelings for social appropriateness, like, for instance, when I switched to public school from parochial schools in elementary. I leaned in to kiss one of my teachers on the cheek after the end of the first day of school because before that point my teachers, along with friends and family members, allowed and accepted it from me. This teacher, however, turned her cheek and very sternly said to eight year old me, "I'm sorry, honey, but we don't do that here." [I actually think she was an ESTJ. I liked her, but I've never known any third grade class as quiet as hers.]

    Thus, I've had to learn not to express myself so openly to better fit into society. I still do some things that people consider weird but seem natural to me (i.e, laughing at inappropriate times, discussing something deemed inappropriate, dancing in an inappropriate setting, etc ). For the most part, though, people describe me as "cold," "aloof," "spacey," and much to my surprise "nice."


    /derail

  4. #24
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    *Sigh* What a breathe of fresh air with a no nonsense bullshit approach.
    LOVE IT


    Quote Originally Posted by colmena View Post
    He's an idealist. He's telling you what he wants to be, not what he is.
    In fact, it's likely he's just carrying over the perceived folly from his previous relationship.
    ..as well as telling you what you want to hear.
    Oh yeah. Possibly.

    Oh, he is an idealist.
    He says something stupid, then is judged. He's insecure; he's being defensive.

    Being an idealist at times can be so darn self limiting. I speak from experience myself. I don't mind him saying something stupid, darling i have 'Foot in mouth syndrome', lol. Just don't tell me you want to change something about yourself then not bother .. I now know to let this one go.
    Insecure, i am not sure, he has mentioned 'being safe'.
    I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't about simple day-to-day communication. He could be trying too hard whilst underestimating your ability to see through the pretense.
    Haha .. I have never trusted my instincts with men because they (men) have always told me i am wrong .. This time round i am going with them. I can and do see pretense bullshit and i am not going to put up with it any longer.
    I am being more openly communicative with him. If you don't like the heat, get out the kitchen


    "Goya, honey, your black paintings are totally rad, but don't you think they could use more bunny rabbits? And maybe rainbows?"
    Not the bunnies and rainbows
    Lol

    Asinine. The content is his. Try to understand it, by all means, but not to directly change it.
    Noted.

    I would just dump him right now.
    I am a tad of an idealist myself
    I don't quit until i have exhausted all options.

    More idealist incongruity.
    He knows what he wants, but he doesn't have the ability/motivation to affect change.
    And whilst in a period of transition, it makes it more harder .. But still you have to take stock and accountability for your life. It is no good pissing and moaning that you don't ever get a break in life but then wait for life to give you the break. You want it then you have to get it.
    Is that just common sense talking there?

    'He wants to get a job but he doesn't because he has depression.'
    He has depression because he doesn't have a job. - Lack of self-respect.
    I think he would openly admit the lack of self respect. Bless him, he does have some issues to deal with. He is only human but having idealistic views seem to be counterproductive at times .. He needs to cut himself some slack (i have seen a little of this recently)

    'He wants to delete his internet accounts because people are stupid but remains on them.'
    Addiction to reward; compounds arrogance.
    Supplant this reward system with real-life rewards (Work, Art, etc.).
    That he's divulging his dissonance to you may well be a cry for help.
    Do NF's generally have a somewhat addictive personality?
    Drugs, alcohol, women, internet, porn *sigh*
    I try not to judge him and although he seems to be making changes, i do wonder if he see's that his behaviours are barriers he has created on his own, ie - Not looking at the real issues.

    HE PROBABLY REQUIRES HELP
    He admits he does. The problem with depression though is the cycle. If he was more energetic in finding a job, he wouldn't have so much time to think .. He bloody over-thinks sometimes :steam:

    I ask everyone for help. I have my own skills, but traditional masculine expectations of independence are not presently one of them. I don't whinge about it, I ask for fucking help. I ask hard. I'm nice; people seem to like helping me.
    I love your mentality and it is so positive. As humans we are not capable doing everything on our own, we need assistance from time to time, me included, lol. I suppose he is taking baby steps, he has mentioned the tortoise and the hare story to me on several occasions

    Shut the fuck up. You're adorable, and trying so hard. Don't upset me.
    You are sooooo cute

    Advice: Seek therapy. Exercise (will get sexier as he gets better).
    I have helped him via my work links to get him on some short courses to get him out the house and into the real world. Slowly but surely. Exercise, hmmmm.

    And here's your vulnerability. You don't trust him. I've thought about him enough to want to look after him, but you really don't need someone you don't feel you can trust.
    I have mentioned elsewhere, vulnerability scares me. I am a work in progress though and aware something needs to change in me. I have also got to
    leave the past where it belongs.

    You're really cute, but it sounds like you're both under 50% right now, and perhaps drawn to each other because of it.
    I like a challenge .. Life wouldn't be fun otherwise.
    Seriously .. I don't want to make him sound like a bastard here, he does have so many lovely qualities. I think i have to stop being so darn stubborn and just accept what i can learn from him (even now during his depression) ie - Patience.

    To have a shot at it: isn't the ESFJ the caregiver? Well, give care.
    This caregiver has become a little selfish and rightly so .. I will help anyone, don't get me wrong .. But i am not superwoman and i can't hold everything together 24/7. I burn out.

    Replace the rewards derived from computer use with real-world rewards.
    Poetry readings? Perhaps self-publish?
    Help him find work he'll enjoy - volunteering's a good start for trying things out. Also, being with others down on their luck, he may feel a little less self-conscious. He'll soon find his confidence.
    At the moment he's lost perspective and may just need someone to take off the blinders.
    I have mentioned about possibly writing a book. I just get reasons why it is not a good idea, and that's a shame, like he is only holding himself back (Story of his life, bless him)

    If your nudges don't work, break his computer. Smash it to shit.
    Fook that darling .. I am not smashing up the computers because they (3) are all mine, lol. I need a life too. He is no longer on the forums (he has asked for bans for 3 months so he can get his shit together. I won't lie and say i am not happy about that as i have just heard someone else has established feelings for him, sigh) What is it with the internet and falling for people?

    Therapy. Diagnose any depression, apathy, social anxiety, etc.
    He is signed up to see a professional and is currently taking St Johns Wort. In the meantime i have slowly been encouraging him via appropriately placed self help books. Every little helps.
    He is currently reading a book about forgiveness.

    The art is really important. That's his source of personal pride. Encourage what he's already doing if you can.
    I agree and will encourage.

    Let me know how you get on with him. I remember seeing a program with a fiery ESFJ costume rental shop owner. She was sweet and mad all over - I was crushing for ages.
    Ehhhhhh, lol. I don't do mad anymore unless i am angry with myself, but that is just silly self preservation (*Like how dare i be ill, when i have a million things to do)

    * Over dramatization*

    Oh, and INFPs can be amazing. I may well be one, and I totally shed a man tear while reading this in the library today. He might like it, too.
    That make me gain a little lump in my throat. How beautiful.
    I'll show him.

    Here's some post-script reading from yours-truly-pedantic-jerkface:

    To and Too - Glossary of Usage - Commonly Confused Words - To versus Too
    Thank you, you-truly-pedantic-jerkface
    Lol


    Cheers darling for your insight
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  5. #25
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    I disagree with a lot of what colmena says. Please don't toss previous posters' insights out the window because you like his perspective better. I would not respond to his angle, which seems dismissive of feelings and assuming the worst in some cases.

    If someone accused me of being pretentious when I confided my goals, dreams and hopes to them (however idealistic they may seem), then I would shut them out. The wall goes up and that person is no longer allowed access to my inner world.

    And no, NFs don't have addictive personalities. That has nothing to do with type, IMO.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

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