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  1. #81
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I just don't get how oblivious a lot of people seem to be to the feelings of others. How can you say/do certain types of things and not understand, or suspect, that you're hurting the other person? I know NFs are supposed to be hyper-sensitive to this kind of thing and we're supposed to have a natural advantage...but I don't know that this is even all that type-related. If you have that big of a blind spot to other people's feelings or the types of things that are likely to hurt, you've got a problem - most likely that you just don't care that much about anyone's feelings except your own. Apparently even saying "sorry if that came across as insensitive" is too damn hard for so many people.

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  2. #82
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    I don't really get how someone s feelings have a special status. If somebody says "thats how things are around here" it can be seen as inconsiderate and so on. But somehow When its about how one feels about a situation its totally alright to have one person judge everybody else to be evil simpletons and obviously lacking the decency of being mind readers or accepting your perspective over theirs. Its hard enough to convince people of things you can reproduce experimentally until the earth freezes over and always get the same result. From a behavioral perspective you do what you do because its rewarding (simplifying here), so its just two sides of the same evolutionarily fine tuned coin. Social animals act as individuals to promote both themselves and the genepool
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  3. #83
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    I don't really get how someone s feelings have a special status. If somebody says "thats how things are around here" it can be seen as inconsiderate and so on. But somehow When its about how one feels about a situation its totally alright to have one person judge everybody else to be evil simpletons and obviously lacking the decency of being mind readers or accepting your perspective over theirs. Its hard enough to convince people of things you can reproduce experimentally until the earth freezes over and always get the same result. From a behavioral perspective you do what you do because its rewarding (simplifying here), so its just two sides of the same evolutionarily fine tuned coin. Social animals act as individuals to promote both themselves and the genepool
    Hm...I think there can be a standard of halfway decent universal behaviour towards everyone. The Golden Rule, for instance. I realise not everyone agrees with this.
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  4. #84
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    U mean kantian ethics? Its the Core item of my own ethical system. But i dont expect everybody to share my viewpoint or guess it without me expressing it out loud or /and using some good old rethorics at ppl. context and socioeconomically expected behaviors can only do so much
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  5. #85
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    U mean kantian ethics? Its the Core item of my own ethical system. But i dont expect everybody to share my viewpoint or guess it without me expressing it out loud
    This may not be what you're getting at, but I don't think people should get away with every sort of bad or inconsiderate behaviour because it hasn't been spelled out or they had to "guess." This kind of comes back to my initial "I realise not everyone is an intuitive NF (or an NF who thinks they're intuitive!) but that's not really an excuse" thing.

    Yes, if you're the type of person who is offended by every last little thing and expect people to always realise that and apologise...you will have problems. But I'm not like that...Well, except maybe a bit during a hyper-sensitive week...
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  6. #86

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    Seek first to understand, then to be understood. That usually solves it.

    I admire Kantian philosophy like no tomorrow, but be careful not to confuse absolutes and universal. The kingdom of ends can only function properly under certain conditions. There are people out there who do not own a conscience. These methods don't work with them. Treating them as if they could would be throwing yourself on the sword. Prudence is mandatory for good decisions no matter what system of ethics you subscribe to.
    "We ascribe beauty to that which is simple; which has no superfluous parts; which exactly answers its end; which stands related to all things; which is the mean of many extremes." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  7. #87
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMonocle View Post
    Prudence is mandatory for good decisions no matter what system of ethics you subscribe to.
    Yes...

    I think I used to know a tiny bit about Kantian philosophy. Time to look it up again, maybe. Off topic, but I developed a phobia about philosophy after having way too many arguments about it with a rather arrogant NT (I'd guess xNTP) at uni for years. We eventually fell out and didn't speak for years. When we patched things up a few years later, he basically said "I haven't changed my mind about anything we used to argue about, but I would probably try to express myself differently now" which I was perfectly happy to accept. We were both young and argumentative then, I guess he wasn't the only arrogant one, it was just a bit more obvious with him than with me...
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  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Yes...

    I think I used to know a tiny bit about Kantian philosophy. Time to look it up again, maybe. Off topic, but I developed a phobia about philosophy after having way too many arguments about it with a rather arrogant NT (I'd guess xNTP) at uni for years. We eventually fell out and didn't speak for years. When we patched things up a few years later, he basically said "I haven't changed my mind about anything we used to argue about, but I would probably try to express myself differently now" which I was perfectly happy to accept. We were both young and argumentative then, I guess he wasn't the only arrogant one, it was just a bit more obvious with him than with me...
    Kant has an amazing mind, but I would follow him up with John Stuart Mill. His "On Liberty" explores how to balance liberty(personal freedom) and authority.(Something bossy Fe can look like)

    It is ethical, you do have the right to stop someone from hurting a person. If you asked Kant, he might tell you that it is not only a right, but it's your duty and the only logical course of action. ::Smiles::

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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    I don't really get how someone s feelings have a special status. If somebody says "thats how things are around here" it can be seen as inconsiderate and so on. But somehow When its about how one feels about a situation its totally alright to have one person judge everybody else to be evil simpletons and obviously lacking the decency of being mind readers or accepting your perspective over theirs. Its hard enough to convince people of things you can reproduce experimentally until the earth freezes over and always get the same result. From a behavioral perspective you do what you do because its rewarding (simplifying here), so its just two sides of the same evolutionarily fine tuned coin. Social animals act as individuals to promote both themselves and the genepool
    Whats not ok about having a personal opinion?

  10. #90
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgman View Post
    Whats not ok about having a personal opinion?
    I never said anything against that
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

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