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  1. #31
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    Do you ever end up letting highly emotive people that close, given the stress they impose from the very start of a relationship?
    I'm sorry to say that I've had to cut it off with a few people who used to be friends because their emotional baggage became too much for me to handle. Highly emotive is fine as long as it's coming from a healthy, balanced person. But if the person starts to fixate on the negative and do nothing but whine, and whine, and whine, and constantly ask me for my advice and talk to me about it but then never take my advice to heart because all they want to do is complain about how miserable they are, I can only take it for so long before I have to cut the connection and walk away. I held out for as long as I could and I tried to make them see their own behavior but I can't stand in quicksand and keep telling myself that I'll hit bottom eventually.

  2. #32
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    A thread could just as easily be started in the NT section titled "Not being NT is not enough excuse" in which NTs lament that not everyone values logic and straightforward bluntness as much as NTs do. Your values are not universal.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
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  3. #33
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
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    Being (or not being) a certain type isn't an excuse for anything. Only a bit of an explanation.

    Captain Obvious strikes yet again.
    IN SERIO FATVITAS.

    -τὸ γὰρ γράμμα ἀποκτέννει, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ-

  4. #34
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    is not being t is enough of a reason for not to understand things from totally objective and complex logical point of view?
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  5. #35
    Senor Membrane
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    Interesting thread. I never thought that the differences between people could be this big. I mean, everyone has empathy, right? And I used to think that when it is not used it means that the person is defending himself, not being open. But this talk about hurting people for their own good. It doesn't fit my idea of empathy. If you hurt them for their own good you would have to do it with empathy, because otherwise you are not doing it for their good, but to defend yourself. And the old saying before the whipping started, this is for your own good, this will hurt me more than you. I am sure it has been used as much with the meaning "the society doesn't allow your actions, so you need to not be you", that is, without empathy. The stern father is afraid of being humiliated by his peers because of his son's eccentric behavior, or something like that.

    Does that make any sense? This thread leaves me puzzled...

  6. #36
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I just don't get how oblivious a lot of people seem to be to the feelings of others. How can you say/do certain types of things and not understand, or suspect, that you're hurting the other person? I know NFs are supposed to be hyper-sensitive to this kind of thing and we're supposed to have a natural advantage...but I don't know that this is even all that type-related. If you have that big of a blind spot to other people's feelings or the types of things that are likely to hurt, you've got a problem - most likely that you just don't care that much about anyone's feelings except your own. Apparently even saying "sorry if that came across as insensitive" is too damn hard for so many people.

    Hm, I'm not having a good week...
    I generally just rely on being polite for the most part. I don't see any point in needlessly upsetting people. It creates pointless, irritating conflict and pain. I wouldn't claim to be very in tune with peoples emotions. When I manage to cause offense it is usually throughg abscence of words/expressiveness rather than there prescence.

  7. #37
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noigmn View Post
    Sorry to hear. Hope your week improves.

    Can I ask what happened?
    To be honest, a more accurate title for this thread might have been "I'm an NF, and I'm too sensitive." It wasn't really anything too specific this week. It was a bad week to start with because a friend went through a crisis (ex-boyfriend who she was still totally in love with, killed in a motorcycle crash) and I was stressed and upset on her behalf. Work is a stress at the moment, I am temping and having a hard time finding a permanent job, and I'm temping in two different departments where there is a bit of a conflict with the hours they want me to do and I feel like they're not being very understanding. Actually, scratch that. They're being reasonably understanding but because I'm stressed generally I am being paranoid and feeling that they're all pissed off at me even though it's probably not the case.

    As far as the OP, I was a bit shocked at a couple of anecdotes that friends told me about people being totally insensitive in their direction. Because this is Over-Sensitivity Week for SilkRoad, that seems to have affected me too. And finally, I am still dwelling on an issue which arose several weeks ago now and actually is on the topic of the OP. I made a mistake which caused an awkward situation, hassle and embarrassment for an ESxP (think he's ESTP but not sure) friend and although it was a situation where he was partly at fault too, his response when I decided to be honest and let him know what the deal was, was harsh and hurtful. (It was by email, which may have made things worse because I am not sure how he meant to come across. He was away at the time and I wanted to apprise him of the situation before he returned and had to face it. He is away again for a long time so any more discussion of this might have to be by email again.) I had done all I could to acknowledge my own error in the matter, apologised, acknowledged that he might feel betrayed but I hoped he could see the bigger picture...etc. His whole response just made me feel worse and there was no evidence of acceptance of responsibility on his part. When I saw him again, he said "let's forget about it" but also seemed to find it necessary to re-emphasize that he was still annoyed about it. He did say "I apologise" (in a very grudging tone) when I said that I had been upset by his reaction, but then added "I don't see what there was in my reaction to upset you." He obviously didn't want to talk about it further, though.

    THe things said by the ESTPs in this thread have been interesting. I guess maybe this person didn't realise how he was coming across, but is this a normal way for an ESTP to react when they're mad? Little or no acceptance of responsibility, even when I have made the effort to acknowledge my own part in the issue and apologise even a bit more than necessary, and harsh words? This doesn't fall into the category of being insensitive to someone you don't really know or care about, because you don't have the energy for it. I think he may have been ashamed of his part in this matter and because of that tried to shift the blame/lash out. I have been reading up about the Enneagram lately and he certainly strikes me as a type 7 and I think that would fit.

    I feel like I should talk to him about it again even just for my own peace of mind, and explain why I was hurt, because he might not realise. But I feel like that might just give him another chance to hurt me again. I don't trust him any more not to do that.

    It was just a lousy week for me and when I feel lousy about one thing, everything else seems to come home to roost too. I'm tired of being like this, I really do try to bring logic to bear on my life and emotions but it is so damn hard. I'd like to point out too that I am not an emotionally high maintenance person. I keep my emotions to myself too much for that. If anything, most people think I'm excessively easy-going.

    EDIT: Oh, and it does surprise me sometimes how insensitive people can be on this forum, but I can't say it bothers me a lot. I haven't been much of a target, anyway.
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  8. #38
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    It's people being emotionally lazy imo. I have those moments too. I'm ok with people not doing the emotionally proper thing, as long as they don't get on my case about being 'logically' lazy, coz I feel that drains me if done constantly. Hypocrisy, meh. Let people just be who they are and realize we all have got our preferences and weaknesses. The thing that pisses me off is when someone gets rude about you not obliging to *their* logical standard when explaining shit. And then when you call them on it, they're like..oh my god, don't be such a baby. That's just..yeah. Take a look in the mirror.
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  9. #39
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    A thread could just as easily be started in the NT section titled "Not being NT is not enough excuse" in which NTs lament that not everyone values logic and straightforward bluntness as much as NTs do. Your values are not universal.
    That's true especially when the complaint regards valuing/using an approach to the same degree as a given type. OTOH, not being an NT is not an excuse to dismiss logic, reason, and straightforwardness in a universal way. Not being "NT" could explain why logic is more difficult for some, but it does not justify a complete disregard for it which produces destructive outcomes outside the individual. The implied problem from either perspective is mostly a matter of extremes and dismissal. More often than not people are not implying a complete dismissal, but it is a matter of degree.

    The benefits of reason and empathy have universal implications, or at least effects that extend beyond the individual applying a given approach.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
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  10. #40
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    That's true, but not being an NT is not an excuse to dismiss logic, reason, and straightforwardness in a universal way. Not being "NT" could explain why logic is more difficult for some, but it does not justify a complete disregard for it which produces destructive outcomes outside the individual. The implied problem from either perspective is mostly a matter of extremes and dismissal.

    The benefits of reason and empathy have universal implications, or at least effects that extend beyond the individual applying a given approach.
    I approve of this post and its implications.

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