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  1. #11
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post
    I say what I'm going to say and just because it upsets you doesn't mean that you didn't need to hear it.
    What's the point of saying something if it is ineffective though? Unless your point is to hurt someone's feelings, then why not use more diplomatic wording? That may be more effective, as it does not put the listener on the defense and make them as inclined to disregard what you're saying. What I've noticed when being too blunt (myself included) is that it creates a new problem that never needed to be, one which distracts from the real issue, and it could have been avoided with a little delicacy.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  2. #12
    Senior Member Bri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post
    Oh, I treat everyone civilly. We're generally a polite breed and we understand that good manners get you everywhere. But if you're dealing with us more extensively, our bluntness is likeky to shine through and we can sometimes step on toes if we're not very self-aware of our words.
    Thanks for the clarification. I have the same problem, heh.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post
    Oh, I treat everyone civilly. We're generally a polite breed and we understand that good manners get you everywhere. But if you're dealing with us more extensively, our bluntness is likeky to shine through and we can sometimes step on toes if we're not very self-aware of our words.
    Don't confuse bluntness, with not caring for other people's feelings.

    The only feelings I'm interested in are that of the people in my inner circle because they've proven that they're worth the stress it puts on me. I don't see why I should put forth the effort of trying to care about absolutely everybody because dealing with the feelings of other people can be incredibly draining for me and can leave me feeling empty if I've given too much.
    That's being emotionally lazy. You can be blunt and still care about how your actions impact someone other than yourself. You can't fake caring, of course, but just wanted to stress that out because I think people confuse bluntness with T.

  4. #14
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    I should also mention that I'm an NF myself and I lived in Las Vegas for six years, and when I returned to West Virginia various people found my behavior rude, even shocking, because I had grown so acclimated to living in a different, "harsher" culture.

    Cultural context is a big deal when it comes to personal interaction - and while culture is obviously a factor from country to country, even city to city, what is considered shocking speech in one family is every day behavior to another.

  5. #15
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    What's the point of saying something if it is ineffective though? Unless your point is to hurt someone's feelings, then why not use more diplomatic wording? That may be more effective, as it does not put the listener on the defense and make them as inclined to disregard what you're saying. What I've noticed when being too blunt (myself included) is that it creates a new problem that never needed to be, one which distracts from the real issue, and it could have been avoided with a little delicacy.
    Sometimes, you need to use words to shock people so it gets them out of their comfort zone. Sometimes, you need to hurt their feelings just to make them understand the severity of your words. Sometimes, the truth is not what you want to hear and it hurts.

    This isn't something I would reccommend doing very often because you're right, being diplomatic is often the better road to take and will get you better results -- in a normal, civil situation, that works best. But sometimes, in certain extreme situations when the person is otherwise not listening, a verbal stab in the gut is the most effective way to get your point across.

    I'm not out to hurt a person's feelings. Having a bunch of people around who don't like you just makes your life more difficult. But if I see that a person needs to hear something, I'm not going to pull my punches just because it'll upset them. They'll get over it.

    Think of the tough love as a sign that I really care about you because I wouldn't bother doing it to someone who didn't mean something to me. If I didn't like you, I'd just ignore you.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post
    Sometimes, you need to use words to shock people so it gets them out of their comfort zone. Sometimes, you need to hurt their feelings just to make them understand the severity of your words. Sometimes, the truth is not what you want to hear and it hurts.
    THIS

    Also - maybe because I have Fi instead of Fe - I feel that some people are too sheltered and shockable for their own good and should be exposed to how the world really is instead of believing it's all upper-middle class PC whiteness (for example, not trying to be classist or racist....just giving a particular description of a certain "comfort zone")

    So, really, this isn't just an T thing.

  7. #17
    Kraken down on piracy Lux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post
    Sometimes, you need to use words to shock people so it gets them out of their comfort zone. Sometimes, you need to hurt their feelings just to make them understand the severity of your words. Sometimes, the truth is not what you want to hear and it hurts.
    But all of this could be done with a kinder edge, and it would probably have more of an effect. Sometimes purring rather than roaring gets results.

    This isn't something I would reccommend doing very often because you're right, being diplomatic is often the better road to take and will get you better results -- in a normal, civil situation, that works best. But sometimes, in certain extreme situations when the person is otherwise not listening, a verbal stab in the gut is the most effective way to get your point across.
    Or the opposite effect. That tactic wouldn't work on me, but I'm sure it works on some people.
    "It is not length of life, but depth of life." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

    "Thought breeds thought." ~ Henry David Thoreau

  8. #18
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Don't confuse bluntness, with not caring for other people's feelings.
    Don't confuse what I said. I'm blunt and I don't care about the feelings of people I don't personally know. I type the words out and press "Submit Reply" because I mean them. ;P

    That's being emotionally lazy. You can be blunt and still care about how your actions impact someone other than yourself. You can't fake caring, of course, but just wanted to stress that out because I think people confuse bluntness with T.
    Once again, skewing my words. It's not being emotionally lazy. Lazy would suggest that I can do it but I just won't. I meant it when I said that it stresses me and makes me exhausted to try to identify with every person I meet. I don't have enough give-a-shit to go around. I'm generally polite and I treat the people I encounter on a day to day basis with courtesy and respect (unless they give me a reason to not), but if one of them throws a hissy fit at me for some percieved wrong that I may or may not have done, I'm not really going to give a damn because they're just some person I'm never going to see again.

  9. #19
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    But all of this could be done with a kinder edge, and it would probably have more of an effect. Sometimes purring rather than roaring gets results.
    It's more of a last resort thing. When you've spent all your time purring and it doesn't get through to the person, it's time to roar.

    I'm likely to use the kinder edge tactic first. I like being nice and polite. It builds up to the roar as the person continues to not listen. They can't say I didn't warn them.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post
    Don't confuse what I said. I'm blunt and I don't care about other peoples feelings. I type the words out and press "Submit Reply" because I mean them. ;P
    Oh shi...!



    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure
    Once again, skewing my words. It's not being emotionally lazy. Lazy would suggest that I can do it but I just won't.
    You were describing a process and how it affected you, or at least that's how I interpreted it. You might very well be a curious exception, but I do think everyone can do it to a certain extent. Don't cut yourself so much slack man

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