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[MBTI General] xNFP's, would you find this rude?

BerberElla

12 and a half weeks
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
2,725
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infp
Looking to hear from both INFP's and ENFP's.

Lets say you are 18 going on 19, you have been living with an older sibling for over a year. During this time you have not been in a position to provide for yourself, which means you have been relying on this sibling for food, clothing, shelter, spending money etc. Even though this sibling has 3 children already and is struggling to make ends meet anyway.

Not only that, but for that entire year your efforts to get a job or make some kind of plan for the future has been next to non existant or minimal at best.

This older sibling cracks and tells you:

1 - You have 3 months to show an improvement in regards to trying to get a job, ie a visual change or you are out.

2 - When you get that job, you need to provide some money towards your share of things instead of relying on the sibling anymore.

3 - You have 6 months from getting the job to move out.


Is this rude?

Would you feel offended or would you honestly understand the motivating factors and forgive me for being "harsh"?

Is there a better way to approach this?

I have tried being silently supportive, but that has led to a year of mooching off of me with no effort to improve.

I feel like being nice is only making things worse.
 

ajblaise

Minister of Propagandhi
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
7,914
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I'm not an xNFP, but.. I'm an INTP and I'm telling you it's not rude. You need the objective answer; your approach sounds great. The 3 things you listed are completely reasonable. Especially when it's sibling-sibling caretaking, he should be embarrassed for not stepping up sooner.

Would he be on the street initially if you kicked him out? Or would he probably panic and try and work before it came to that? I'm assuming it's a guy... don't put a girl on the street. :)
 

Night

Boring old fossil
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
4,755
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INTJ
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Yeah. Not an xNFP, but your approach is more than reasonable. Virtue of bloodline does not shackle you into servitude; your younger sibling needs to grow up.

Not that their reluctance is necessarily indicative of a wider pattern of dysfunction, either - your sibling is pretty young. 18 or 19 is still an adolescent. It's going to be challenging for someone in that age range to conceptualize how their behavior influences others - especially family.

Best of luck.
 

BerberElla

12 and a half weeks
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
2,725
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infp
Oh, I do think they are reasonable myself, but I was more worried about how it would be taken. I don't want him to feel rejected in anyway as that's not my intention, but as you said, there should be at least some sort of embarrassment for not stepping up sooner.

I'm also not sure how much help there is, he is between 18-25 and the local housing council are the least helpful for young men between that age bracket. Maybe he could get a room at the local YMCA or another hostel, but there is a risk he could end up homeless which is why I am so reluctant to go through with this threat.

Girls get more help, so if it was a sister thing, and I have had a sister staying with me before, it's a hell of alot easier to ensure they get a place to move safely to.

I just don't see any other options, I can not improve the living conditions in this house for my own children whilst he is here, unless he starts working.
 

Night

Boring old fossil
Joined
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I just don't see any other options, I can not improve the living conditions in this house for my own children whilst he is here, unless he starts working.

Here's your solution.

There's no justifiable reason for him to not contribute.
 

Eckhart

New member
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Jan 6, 2010
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???
Well, I can imagine that the person who is being told that might react as if (s)he was hurt first, but it certainly is not a rude approach, and it is totally understandable that you would act like that.

However, I think the person will understand you after some time, even if you have to put some pressure. Make sure though that it is understood as you mean it as you say, it can end bad when the person does not take the words serious.

It is a good approach I think, since you don't say "GTFO instanty", but give an adequate time limit for at least showing effort in changing something in life.

However, if you notice that (s)he does not change anything after your approach, you should maybe confront and ask why (s)he acts like that. I believe often there is more reasons behind something like that other than just being lazy. Of course, 18/19 is quite a young age too, but when I would live with some sibling in a household with own children, I would want to leave as soon as possible too. It is different to living with parents.
 

ajblaise

Minister of Propagandhi
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Maybe he could get a room at the local YMCA or another hostel, but there is a risk he could end up homeless which is why I am so reluctant to go through with this threat.

Well as long as you convince him that you'll go through with it - you should get the same results, whether deep down you think you'll wimp out or not. Bring out that ENTJness.
 

BerberElla

12 and a half weeks
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
2,725
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infp
Here's your solution.

There's no justifiable reason for him to not contribute.

Oh, I agree. :yes:

He is just so touchy, he is a young enfp who seems to bristle whenever I pluck up the courage to point out anything.

He takes it quite personally, as if my telling him that finding his boxer shorts and wet towel thrown on the floor outside the bathroom without fail for every bath over the year he has been here, is me saying I hate him in some way.

Or my pointing out that he ate the kids breakfast for his late night snack is rejection, when it's not, I'm just trying to get him to see how his actions effect others.

Which makes dealing with the even bigger issue, the lack of job or motivation, offputting.
 

thisGuy

New member
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Mar 14, 2009
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1,187
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entp
just tell him what to do rather than what no to do

also, passively sharing some of your problems might help
 

thisGuy

New member
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However, if you notice that (s)he does not change anything after your approach, you should maybe confront and ask why (s)he acts like that. I believe often there is more reasons behind something like that other than just being lazy. Of course, 18/19 is quite a young age too, but when I would live with some sibling in a household with own children, I would want to leave as soon as possible too. It is different to living with parents.

you have to be a little careful though. in my experience, ENFPs are somewhat reluctant to abide to a lifestyle choice just because they have to

which is why i said share some of your problems and frustrations with him. not as in you are trying to make him see it and hoping he will do something about it. just express them the way you would to a friend . he WILL see them and be motivated to contribute
 

BerberElla

12 and a half weeks
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
2,725
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infp
Well, I can imagine that the person who is being told that might react as if (s)he was hurt first, but it certainly is not a rude approach, and it is totally understandable that you would act like that.

However, I think the person will understand you after some time, even if you have to put some pressure. Make sure though that it is understood as you mean it as you say, it can end bad when the person does not take the words serious.

It is a good approach I think, since you don't say "GTFO instanty", but give an adequate time limit for at least showing effort in changing something in life.

However, if you notice that (s)he does not change anything after your approach, you should maybe confront and ask why (s)he acts like that. I believe often there is more reasons behind something like that other than just being lazy. Of course, 18/19 is quite a young age too, but when I would live with some sibling in a household with own children, I would want to leave as soon as possible too. It is different to living with parents.

Hard for me to see it as young because I was forced to grow up quickly in regards to housing, bills and food and stuff. By his age I was working, paying rent, and had been for a couple of years, even if I did monumentally screw up at times. :smile:

I knew I had no one to turn to for help, so I got on with it out of need. I know that if he felt he had no one to turn to it would be a forceful motivator to deal with his life, but I also remember how much it hurt me knowing I had no one to turn to, which is why I have let it go on for so long.

I think you are right, there may be some offence initially but in time that will fade, however during that time I will have to deal with the guilt of causing this offence. (I feel guilt over everything :doh:)

That's why I'm trying to find a plan in which I cause no offence at all. :blush:

Well as long as you convince him that you'll go through with it - you should get the same results, whether deep down you think you'll wimp out or not. Bring out that ENTJness.

I can but try :laugh: everybody knows I'm a soft touch as long as you don't cross certain lines, and he keeps himself well within those lines. Bloody smart perceptive enfp's, could throttle them sometimes.
 

branflakes

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Jan 3, 2010
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i think that would be a good way to go. i'm an infp/enfp maybe a little less sensitive than some but i definitely need a kick in the ass or a reason to get moving before i actually do so this should help.
 

BerberElla

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you have to be a little careful though. in my experience, ENFPs are somewhat reluctant to abide to a lifestyle choice just because they have to


This is a running joke between me and him, he never does anything that is HAS to, you can't even word it "you have to do this" or else he rebels. We joke about it all the time.

I know I do too, even when it makes sense, not so bad now, but used to be an instant rebellion on hand.

Infact I might have walked out in a huff if someone tried to force change on me, but not if it was dealt with nicely. I respond well to reason, not to force.

However I've been doing nice and supportive for a year for him, I feel forced by circumstance now to be harsher.


which is why i said share some of your problems and frustrations with him. not as in you are trying to make him see it and hoping he will do something about it. just express them the way you would to a friend . he WILL see them and be motivated to contribute

I have been, to approach it in that way is exactly the kind of gentle way I have been using, and it does seem to set lights off in his head, but by the next day those lights, that connection and understanding and promise of change based off those motivational feelings he had before, are gone.
 

BerberElla

12 and a half weeks
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
2,725
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infp
i think that would be a good way to go. i'm an infp/enfp maybe a little less sensitive than some but i definitely need a kick in the ass or a reason to get moving before i actually do so this should help.

Thanks for your input. :)

Tough love is sometimes the best love.

Oh, I agree. The tiny rational part of me agrees that is, the other side of me does not respond well to tough love.

Maybe if I word it in a non tough lovey sort of way. :puppy_dog_eyes:
 

Biaxident

Charting a course
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Jan 10, 2009
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3,617
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He is just so touchy, he is a young enfp who seems to bristle whenever I pluck up the courage to point out anything.

He takes it quite personally, as if my telling him that finding his boxer shorts and wet towel thrown on the floor outside the bathroom without fail for every bath over the year he has been here, is me saying I hate him in some way.

Or my pointing out that he ate the kids breakfast for his late night snack is rejection, when it's not, I'm just trying to get him to see how his actions effect others.

Which makes dealing with the even bigger issue, the lack of job or motivation, offputting.

Sounds fairly familiar. Not the boxer shorts and wet towel on the floor, but the reaction to it being mentioned.

I learned the hard way. And I wouldn't recommend it, but sometimes that is what it takes.

There is no easy way to say it. But you need to.
 

BerberElla

12 and a half weeks
Joined
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Messages
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infp
Sounds fairly familiar. Not the boxer shorts and wet towel on the floor, but the reaction to it being mentioned.

I learned the hard way. And I wouldn't recommend it, but sometimes that is what it takes.

There is no easy way to say it. But you need to.


Tough isn't it? we know once the emotional reaction is over that it's a fair thing, but our initial reactions aren't the best. :yes:
 

Biaxident

Charting a course
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3,617
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Tough isn't it? we know once the emotional reaction is over that it's a fair thing, but our initial reactions aren't the best. :yes:


Yup. And now I wonder why I just couldn't shut my mouth, and get over it. :doh:
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
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14,037
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I think everything you said is reasonable.

What is his self-esteem like? If part of his remaining in a child role is influenced by inner feelings of failure, then his self-concept might perpetuate his behavior. If that is the case, he could interpret a push to get his life together as reinforcement of his feelings of failure. If there are ways to help him develop a self-image in which he is empowered to contribute to those he cares about, he will feel better overall. On some level he knows his actions make him a liability instead of contributor and that does not reinforce a positive view of self. It might help to reinforce compliments of whatever skills he possesses. It is in his best interest for him to function as a contributor. He will feel better and stronger. If he isn't going to seek out opportunities, I might look for a job for him to help get the momentum going. I don't know if there is any access to friends his age who have some ambition to also help motivate him. Maybe if he had a group of friends and a girl he was trying to impress that might help as well. Getting a job one way to meet people. Maybe find a job where there are some cute girls working and see if he sees a reason to apply? :newwink:
 

BerberElla

12 and a half weeks
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
2,725
MBTI Type
infp
I think everything you said is reasonable.

What is his self-esteem like? If part of his remaining in a child role is influenced by inner feelings of failure, then his self-concept might perpetuate his behavior. If that is the case, he could interpret a push to get his life together as reinforcement of his feelings of failure. If there are ways to help him develop a self-image in which he is empowered to contribute to those he cares about, he will feel better overall. On some level he knows his actions make him a liability instead of contributor and that does not reinforce a positive view of self. It might help to reinforce compliments of whatever skills he possesses. It is in his best interest for him to function as a contributor. He will feel better and stronger. If he isn't going to seek out opportunities, I might look for a job for him to help get the momentum going. I don't know if there is any access to friends his age who have some ambition to also help motivate him. Maybe if he had a group of friends and a girl he was trying to impress that might help as well. Getting a job one way to meet people. Maybe find a job where there are some cute girls working and see if he sees a reason to apply? :newwink:

I have picked up on his lack of esteem, I totally understand that and I did try to nourish and support that with compliments. My resentment of late means I have stopped, but I believe you are right, and I need to start doing it again.

He seems so defeated. I have applied for jobs for him, I have walked around for hours handing out his CV, I managed to get him out the door to go to an interview today. Getting it will boost his confidence, not getting it could set him further back.

I have tried the cute girl angle, but in truth he has quite a few girls throwing themselves at him but he lacks even the motivation to care about that. He has told me, and his actions have proven it, that he has zero interest in girls right now as he doesn't feel he is in a proud position, just a bum.

His ideal is job, money, then girls. His status is how he judges himself and of course he has no status right now.
 
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