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[MBTI General] xNFP's, would you find this rude?

BerberElla

12 and a half weeks
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
2,725
MBTI Type
infp
Hey lady! Your brother sounds like a very sweet, lost young man. I agree with Tallulah that he may be depressed. He still has to take responsibility for getting help though. You can't be everything to him. Definitely take a strong stand but do it kindly. I don't know what the exact financial situation is so please do what's best for you and your kids.

Explain the situation to him especially that concerning the kids and how they are different because they are not old enough to take care of themselves like he is. Ask him for his "help" in taking care of himself and becoming independent - tell him you need him to do that for all of you. I think your strategy is wise. Just don't take away everything at once. There's no reason you should be providing him pocket money. Even parents don't do that beyond 18 for many of us. I'd ask him to start contributing an X amount towards rent and food in 4-6 weeks. That's plenty of time to find a job, any job even flipping burgers to make that rent. Everyone can find something. He is a man and I understand well the pride that stops them from doing a job they consider beneath him. You not enabling him by providing for him will help him overcome that. Everyone has to start somewhere. If he fails to do that then consider turning him out.

As you take away physical support in food and shelter, offer more non-material support. see if you can just ask him what's going on. Be there more which must be mighty difficult if you're playing the mother role to your kids and him. That's what siblings can do in the long run, right. He's fortunate to have you in his life and that you're an ENFP. Slowly move to offering more comfort and encouragement and less material support.


:yes: That's what I have got out of this thread now, I won't give an ultimatum, but I will make my boundaries clear but do it in a way that makes him feel like I need him in on this with me, camaraderie so to speak.

This feels right at least, the ultimatum felt like me not being me.

Na, you are not being unreasonable.
I've been unemployed for a bit, it's tough out there. It's easy to lose motivation and give up. A good kick up the butt is maybe what he needs.
The fear of starving is a BIG motivator. I can understand losing momentum, but some times you have to keep going even though all you want to do is curl up and sleep the days away. I've survived a failure in business, and potential homelessness, and I tell you nothing feels better than knowing, soon, I'll be standing on my two feet again. Seriously, he might not like it at the time, but in the long run, he'll feel better for it once he's got a job and is contributing.

I was even tempted to put a lock on the kitchen as he raids my fridge and cupboard once I go to bed and I end up needing to replace things so quickly lol but I would rather it was done off his own back and his own understanding.

Glad to hear things are getting better for you though. :)

Thanks everyone for your kind words and supportive ideas.

I feel like I have a more workable solution now at least.

Now, to call a family meeting muahahahaha feel so grown up. :shock:
 

ajblaise

Minister of Propagandhi
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
7,914
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If all these other tactics end up failing, you can always exaggerate money problems. Make him feel really low for being such a sponge on your resources (you xNFPs can be pretty good at laying on the guilt ;)). Tell him you're not going to take food out of your kids mouths because you have to fully support a grown brother. An appeal to empathy.

Although, possibly, one of the reasons why he doesn't feel enough incentive to work, is that he knows a lot of it will have to go to paying his fair share in the household. That would be weak.
 

mr.awesome

New member
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Jan 2, 2010
Messages
368
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sounds kinda like step brothers...
nonetheless... i am going to be in this exact situation a year from now. i live with my sister on and off, always just have been mooching off her family. while i will start living with her full time next year. i think she will help me out once in awhile, like food and whatnot. everything else is totally me though. i dont think your sibling is being offensive.. theyve just gotten to the point where they had to bring it up. so they did. i personally would feel pretty bummed. but its totally understandable.
 

Lady_X

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yeah i agree that it's not rude but personally i'd say it differently.

i would likely say...
i need you to know this is not easy for me and i do it because i care about what happens to you...i need you to show me that you're doing something to change the situation...and show the same concern for me as i am you...try to get a job...really try...and then after saving a bit you'll be able to get your own place...it's not easy for anyone starting out on their own but we all have to do it.

hugs n all that :)
 

ajblaise

Minister of Propagandhi
Joined
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Messages
7,914
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INTP
yeah i agree that it's not rude but personally i'd say it differently.

i would likely say...
i need you to know this is not easy for me and i do it because i care about what happens to you...i need you to show me that you're doing something to change the situation...and show the same concern for me as i am you...try to get a job...really try...and then after saving a bit you'll be able to get your own place...it's not easy for anyone starting out on their own but we all have to do it.

hugs n all that :)

But I thought it sounded like she already tried to play the supportive but concerned role.

Anyways, Berb you can't listen to another ENFP on this anyways, you need the hard truth! :yes:
 

Poki

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Looking to hear from both INFP's and ENFP's.

Lets say you are 18 going on 19, you have been living with an older sibling for over a year. During this time you have not been in a position to provide for yourself, which means you have been relying on this sibling for food, clothing, shelter, spending money etc. Even though this sibling has 3 children already and is struggling to make ends meet anyway.

Not only that, but for that entire year your efforts to get a job or make some kind of plan for the future has been next to non existant or minimal at best.

This older sibling cracks and tells you:

1 - You have 3 months to show an improvement in regards to trying to get a job, ie a visual change or you are out.

2 - When you get that job, you need to provide some money towards your share of things instead of relying on the sibling anymore.

3 - You have 6 months from getting the job to move out.


Is this rude?

Would you feel offended or would you honestly understand the motivating factors and forgive me for being "harsh"?

Is there a better way to approach this?

I have tried being silently supportive, but that has led to a year of mooching off of me with no effort to improve.

I feel like being nice is only making things worse.

I am not INFP or ENFP, but 1 & 2 seem fine. With step 3 I would wait to see how 1 & 2 pan out. I mean if 1 causes them to move out you have no need to bring up step 3.

It just comes across as "you want me out no matter what" the response I would expect would be for the person to be offended and just jump to the end result and leave.
 

runvardh

にゃん
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Wow, why didn't I see this? I have never been in that situation before since I've always made the effort to be come helpful or independant. I don't see an issue with those requirements though I could see the recipiant feeling a little indignant for some time if their not mature enough to handle it. I wouldn't be surprised if you'll end up the bad guy for some time before that sibling grows up enough to see why you did it; by then she'll likely be more thankful for it than if you had just caved and let the current situation continue. If that doesn't happen, though, do you really want to have her around if she won't appreciate it, even if only eventually?
 

Tallulah

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Feb 19, 2008
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Hey, BE, I forgot to come back and see your reply! Sorry! I know how hard it is to deal with someone who doesn't want to get help for themselves.

I think maybe I'd approach it as, "I know you're having a hard time, and I don't want to make it harder for you. But I also can't keep supporting you, because it's making things hard on me financially, while you get to stay here and eat for free. And I don't mind having you here, but it wasn't my intention to do this long-term. So maybe you tell me what you think is a fair contribution?" And go from there. Maybe it will help to give him a say in the matter, and he will understand by implication that things are going to change, but you can figure out together how to make that change.
 

Lady_X

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But I thought it sounded like she already tried to play the supportive but concerned role.

Anyways, Berb you can't listen to another ENFP on this anyways, you need the hard truth! :yes:

dis she? oh... :blush: only read the op...it was late sorry.
 

BerberElla

12 and a half weeks
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Sep 25, 2008
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How did it go, Berbs?

Yes, progress report.

Shamefully I am only just able to report any progress today, as today was when I finally plucked up the courage to speak to him

Final prompting came when I opened my phone bill to be confronted by an additional £70 in call fees. :doh:

I didn't explode though, although initially I almost did.

I just called him in the room and told him we needed to speak, that my behaviour of late has been because I need to talk to him and not having been able to do it......ie I've basically been a hermit in my room whenever he is around, because being in the same room as him was making it hard to fight my anger.

Anyway, I told him how I felt, he ended up crying, I think he felt attacked but I stressed constantly that this was not an attack. I'm not sure if he wanted a hug, I wanted to comfort him because I could see he was down about it, but I find hugging people difficult, with the gender stuff I was raised with, hugging a man, even a family member is not done, so I couldn't comfort him properly.

I didn't give any ultimatums, just pointed out how difficult it is for me financially to maintain caring for him, and that it's been well over a year now. That I was concerned he wasn't doing enough to change the situation, and of course how worried I am about him and his future.

He promised to try harder, re-assured me that he knew I wasn't trying to attack him, or that I was saying he wasn't welcome here.

Although I feel alot better for having tackled the subject finally, the fact that he cried is sticking with me, and now I am struggling with feelings of guilt lol.

Damn my emotions. :blush:
 

pyramid

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Feb 21, 2010
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I'd say that a crafty and effective xNFP, able to comply with steps 1 and 2 (which are not unreasonable and things struggling with will benefit you -- you jobless xNFP :biggrin:) should be able to stretch or eliminate step 3 or rework in a more reasonable situation.

my inner judgmental realist say after 6 months of (say: minimum wage) job I don't know if someone can handle expenses completely on their own. I believe in you though! after you show a concrete effort and start helping out in more ways the older sibling might not feel so inclined to push you away.

Overall I feel the first two demands are loving, the last demand is a result of stressors
 

runvardh

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70?! That would get my blood boiling. Thankfully the ENFP brother I have was on the job trail day one and pretty much has had a job since day 2 to help pay for things - then again, he's 24.
 

fireandwater

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Feb 17, 2010
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enfp's need to feel there are opportunities out there and also need (especially when young) to know that taking a job now -- any job -- in no way limits their choices for the future. I recommend, now that you've talked to him, that you focus your efforts on helping him see what OPPORTUNITIES are there and that he can pursue one or several wholeheartedly while still having all options open for the future. nfp's need to feel they are being authentic and your brother may be scared he will lose himself if he takes the wrong path. If he feels you are trying to get him to abandon his true self and become an SJ who just has a job, any job, he will resist. Remind him you are in it (as emotional support and an ear for exploring his own authenticity, not as an all-providing mother) for the long haul. Remember, you are his ally (and a great one -- lucky him to have an nfp sister) in his journey toward self fulfillment. (He might benefit from taking a career aptitude test, too, although that would tend him toward school probably rather than job). Make sure he understands he has many, many years ahead of him to make course corrections. Taking a step -- any step -- is better than none at all. Also, isolated enfps are often unhappy. Getting out there "in the world" will make him feel better.
 

Little Linguist

Striving for balance
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No way! In fact, I did something very similar, and it worked wonders. When you stand up for yourself, people start respecting you more.
 

ergophobe

Allergic to Mornings
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Apr 26, 2009
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Glad you had the conversation Berbs. Don't let the guilt take away from the immense courage it took to have the conversation - we all need to stand up for ourselves sometimes and especially you for your kids :hug:

It's clear that you care for your brother greatly and since you are the adult figure in his life, you will have to be firm with him sometimes, like a parent would. You're teaching him a really important life lesson, one about taking responsibility for oneself. It's difficult but he's lucky to have you around to support him. It's always better once you've had these difficult conversations. At least you can be your self around him instead of feeling that constant resentment. Give him some time and space to figure things out and take good care of yourself.

Thanks for the update.
 

Phenix

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Apr 28, 2009
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40
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INFP
I'm thinking that if you are both 'P' types you might want to put some milestones on paper and set a regular date to review them. This might also take the high focus in the 'F' realm out of the picture if you are both focusing on the plan and not each other. I would hold firm on the drop dead date and start asking questions about what he is going to do on that date as it gets closer.

I admire your courage for taking this up with him. I would have had to write a letter I think.
 

niberrizbe25

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Mar 5, 2010
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36
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I think that it is a neccesary step. The xnfp described is probably lost in some self contemplation. The work and structure would be very beneficial so that he or she can find their footing in their Fi function. You are not being unfair and he or she will probably understand in the long run that it was needed. Plus the feeling of contributing will probably sit well with their idealistic mentality, giving rise to his/her moral integrity; They will probably find it better to succeed at other endevours.
I speak from personal experience. My father made me contribute for the household as soon as I was able to work legally (green card!) I find satisfaction from the independence. Plus being in a working environment helped me find discipline and balance productivity with my head in the clouds nature hahaha! I hope the best for you and your siblin.
P.s. those tatoos are wicked sexy. Got to find me a pair of legs like those! hahaha! :devil:
 
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