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  1. #21
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    I'm not a fan of ultimatums if they are out of the blue (who am I kidding, I'm not a fan of any kind of ultimatum). What you said seems reasonable provided you've talked about the situation with that person before.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Parrish's Avatar
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    I don`t think you`re being rude, you`re doing the both of you a favour. He will have to stand on his own feet sooner or later and you`re making it as easy as possible. From what you`ve said it seems he`s not satisfied with his current position either, but doesn`t know where/what to start working on first. So hopefully this will give him a little push in the right direction. I`m guessing he`s still searching for something he`s interested in doing, but in the meanwhile it`d be only fair of him to contribute to your household.

    Try to talk to him about what he`d be interested in doing, once he has a set goal it`ll be easier to find motivation. And once he`ll start acting towards it, getting a job for the meanwhile won`t seem like a drag, and his self-esteem should be getting better at the same time. If you`ve got a job you`re happy doing tell him about it. I`m the same way, a terrible procrastinator. The times my parents corner me for a "talk" I`d act deffensive and want to end the conversation as soon as possible, but that`s because I already beat myself up because of it, it`s just that the motivation won`t bend to my will. Usually I feel better just by starting to work on/towards something. As soon as I take some small steps forward, I see the results and feel motivated to take bigger steps or devise a masterplan

    I`m sure he`s aware you`re a great big sister and apreciates your support. He just needs to clear his head.

    Added:
    Oh and about the ultimatum. It seems reasonable but if he`s not able to meet the deadline, tell him you`re open for negotiations, provided you can see him seriously trying and somehow contributing to the household (doing chores, splitting food expenses sometimes, rent...).


    Cheers
    .:"Claude os, aperi oculos.":.

    "You can't give up hope just because it's hopeless, you have to hope even harder and cover your ears and go 'lalalalalalala'"- Fry (Futurama)

  3. #23
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    word it better

  4. #24
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    Yes. Be harsh. In this case, it's the right thing to do. Kick that fucking tert/inf Te into gear. This kid needs to grow up.

    P.S. Nothing you're saying is even remotely rude or truly harsh. You're being more than reasonable. By helping him get a job you're actually coddling him. Expecting more out of him would actually be better for his self-esteem.

    All of this is shocking to me, frankly. I started baby-sitting at thirteen, had a real job by sixteen, paid my own car insurance once I got a car, and when I temporarily moved back in with my mother as an adult, I was expected to contribute in some way after the first few months.

    The only reason I would think you were being too harsh is if he's mentally ill or suffering from some sort of trauma where he would require excessive support.

    Does he have any interest in school?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post
    Is this rude?

    Would you feel offended or would you honestly understand the motivating factors and forgive me for being "harsh"?

    Is there a better way to approach this?

    I have tried being silently supportive, but that has led to a year of mooching off of me with no effort to improve.

    I feel like being nice is only making things worse.
    Rude? Boundaries are essential to the health of relationships and the individuals in them.

    It's not supportive (well, perhaps literally) to allow someone do nothing constructive with their time while mooching off others, it's damaging.

  6. #26
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    I'm not a fan of ultimatums if they are out of the blue (who am I kidding, I'm not a fan of any kind of ultimatum). What you said seems reasonable provided you've talked about the situation with that person before.
    Same here....

    If you've been mostly mum about your feelings & take the approach in the OP, then it will seem like it's coming out of nowhere, with no warning and may seem "unfair" to him because of it (even if it's not unfair). You basically want to take it in steps, and slowly up the ante if he does not respond.

    Do you already have open discussion about his work situation & general behavior in your home? Does he clearly know what you need from him and what you expect? Has it been stated in a way that is not just pointing out his deficit? ie., instead of saying, "You never do xyz", you could say, "I'd appreciate it if you did xyz more often." It's informing instead of accusing, and gives him the benefit of the doubt that he may have been trying at some point before.

    Sometimes us NFPs think we've stated clearly what we need, but we've been so diplomatic and indirect the point has gotten lost, and the other person is honestly oblivious to our frustrations.

    If you've been doing that, then great, and maybe it is time to give an ultimatum. It still may cause an argument if you word it too harshly though. What is your objective: to vent and feel better, or to actually motivate him to seriously look for work & obtain a job? Generally, criticism that has some encouragement and shows you believe in someone goes farther than just pointing out what they need to do and applying pressure.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  7. #27
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post
    Looking to hear from both INFP's and ENFP's.

    Lets say you are 18 going on 19, you have been living with an older sibling for over a year. During this time you have not been in a position to provide for yourself, which means you have been relying on this sibling for food, clothing, shelter, spending money etc. Even though this sibling has 3 children already and is struggling to make ends meet anyway.

    Not only that, but for that entire year your efforts to get a job or make some kind of plan for the future has been next to non existant or minimal at best.

    This older sibling cracks and tells you:

    1 - You have 3 months to show an improvement in regards to trying to get a job, ie a visual change or you are out.

    2 - When you get that job, you need to provide some money towards your share of things instead of relying on the sibling anymore.

    3 - You have 6 months from getting the job to move out.


    Is this rude?
    Rude? No. Threatening? Yes.

    "Dude, you have all these people skills, right? I know you do, c'mon, you're great, I've seen you with the girls, playa! So who do you reckon you can con into giving you a job? This week's challenge: walk into five different places and talk them into giving you some work."
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  8. #28
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Yeah, also it is my opinion, that in situations were I'm in control, if someone is taking advantage of me it is my own fault. If someone was given no idea of how much a certain kind of behavior pisses me off I feel very bad giving them an ultimatum. Another reason why I prize honesty so much and direct communication.

    If you let people know what they can expect from the get go, you are helping them, by giving them information on how much they can count on and also you are helping yourself because you're conscience can be completely clear when it comes to dealing with whatever needs dealing with.

  9. #29
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Is it possible he's depressed? A lot of the time, from the outside, it can look like a depressed person is just lazy and irresponsible, when really, they don't feel like they are physically or emotionally able to handle things that would normally be no problem. His lack of interest and low self-esteem are red flags. If that's the case, that could be why he doesn't care about picking up after himself or thinking about leaving cereal for the kids. I'd try to do some poking around and see if that could be the case. When you're clinically depressed and people try to "encourage/motivate" you or give you ultimatums, it's devastating, because 1) you feel like you have no support system, and 2) you don't feel like you CAN give them what they want.

    If you are satisfied that he's not depressed, I think your approach is reasonable. You're his sibling, not his mother. He's not entitled to be supported.
    Something Witty

  10. #30
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    It's not rude. At all. It's understandable. I can understand someone may get their feelings hurt by it.. but harsh stuff isn't the same as rude stuff.
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