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  1. #11
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckhart View Post
    Well, I can imagine that the person who is being told that might react as if (s)he was hurt first, but it certainly is not a rude approach, and it is totally understandable that you would act like that.

    However, I think the person will understand you after some time, even if you have to put some pressure. Make sure though that it is understood as you mean it as you say, it can end bad when the person does not take the words serious.

    It is a good approach I think, since you don't say "GTFO instanty", but give an adequate time limit for at least showing effort in changing something in life.

    However, if you notice that (s)he does not change anything after your approach, you should maybe confront and ask why (s)he acts like that. I believe often there is more reasons behind something like that other than just being lazy. Of course, 18/19 is quite a young age too, but when I would live with some sibling in a household with own children, I would want to leave as soon as possible too. It is different to living with parents.
    Hard for me to see it as young because I was forced to grow up quickly in regards to housing, bills and food and stuff. By his age I was working, paying rent, and had been for a couple of years, even if I did monumentally screw up at times.

    I knew I had no one to turn to for help, so I got on with it out of need. I know that if he felt he had no one to turn to it would be a forceful motivator to deal with his life, but I also remember how much it hurt me knowing I had no one to turn to, which is why I have let it go on for so long.

    I think you are right, there may be some offence initially but in time that will fade, however during that time I will have to deal with the guilt of causing this offence. (I feel guilt over everything )

    That's why I'm trying to find a plan in which I cause no offence at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Well as long as you convince him that you'll go through with it - you should get the same results, whether deep down you think you'll wimp out or not. Bring out that ENTJness.
    I can but try everybody knows I'm a soft touch as long as you don't cross certain lines, and he keeps himself well within those lines. Bloody smart perceptive enfp's, could throttle them sometimes.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

  2. #12
    Member branflakes's Avatar
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    i think that would be a good way to go. i'm an infp/enfp maybe a little less sensitive than some but i definitely need a kick in the ass or a reason to get moving before i actually do so this should help.

  3. #13
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Tough love is sometimes the best love.

  4. #14
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisGuy View Post
    you have to be a little careful though. in my experience, ENFPs are somewhat reluctant to abide to a lifestyle choice just because they have to

    This is a running joke between me and him, he never does anything that is HAS to, you can't even word it "you have to do this" or else he rebels. We joke about it all the time.

    I know I do too, even when it makes sense, not so bad now, but used to be an instant rebellion on hand.

    Infact I might have walked out in a huff if someone tried to force change on me, but not if it was dealt with nicely. I respond well to reason, not to force.

    However I've been doing nice and supportive for a year for him, I feel forced by circumstance now to be harsher.


    which is why i said share some of your problems and frustrations with him. not as in you are trying to make him see it and hoping he will do something about it. just express them the way you would to a friend . he WILL see them and be motivated to contribute
    I have been, to approach it in that way is exactly the kind of gentle way I have been using, and it does seem to set lights off in his head, but by the next day those lights, that connection and understanding and promise of change based off those motivational feelings he had before, are gone.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

  5. #15
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by branflakes View Post
    i think that would be a good way to go. i'm an infp/enfp maybe a little less sensitive than some but i definitely need a kick in the ass or a reason to get moving before i actually do so this should help.
    Thanks for your input.

    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    Tough love is sometimes the best love.
    Oh, I agree. The tiny rational part of me agrees that is, the other side of me does not respond well to tough love.

    Maybe if I word it in a non tough lovey sort of way.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post

    He is just so touchy, he is a young enfp who seems to bristle whenever I pluck up the courage to point out anything.

    He takes it quite personally, as if my telling him that finding his boxer shorts and wet towel thrown on the floor outside the bathroom without fail for every bath over the year he has been here, is me saying I hate him in some way.

    Or my pointing out that he ate the kids breakfast for his late night snack is rejection, when it's not, I'm just trying to get him to see how his actions effect others.

    Which makes dealing with the even bigger issue, the lack of job or motivation, offputting.
    Sounds fairly familiar. Not the boxer shorts and wet towel on the floor, but the reaction to it being mentioned.

    I learned the hard way. And I wouldn't recommend it, but sometimes that is what it takes.

    There is no easy way to say it. But you need to.

  7. #17
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biaxident View Post
    Sounds fairly familiar. Not the boxer shorts and wet towel on the floor, but the reaction to it being mentioned.

    I learned the hard way. And I wouldn't recommend it, but sometimes that is what it takes.

    There is no easy way to say it. But you need to.

    Tough isn't it? we know once the emotional reaction is over that it's a fair thing, but our initial reactions aren't the best.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post
    Tough isn't it? we know once the emotional reaction is over that it's a fair thing, but our initial reactions aren't the best.

    Yup. And now I wonder why I just couldn't shut my mouth, and get over it.

  9. #19
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I think everything you said is reasonable.

    What is his self-esteem like? If part of his remaining in a child role is influenced by inner feelings of failure, then his self-concept might perpetuate his behavior. If that is the case, he could interpret a push to get his life together as reinforcement of his feelings of failure. If there are ways to help him develop a self-image in which he is empowered to contribute to those he cares about, he will feel better overall. On some level he knows his actions make him a liability instead of contributor and that does not reinforce a positive view of self. It might help to reinforce compliments of whatever skills he possesses. It is in his best interest for him to function as a contributor. He will feel better and stronger. If he isn't going to seek out opportunities, I might look for a job for him to help get the momentum going. I don't know if there is any access to friends his age who have some ambition to also help motivate him. Maybe if he had a group of friends and a girl he was trying to impress that might help as well. Getting a job one way to meet people. Maybe find a job where there are some cute girls working and see if he sees a reason to apply?
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
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    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
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  10. #20
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I think everything you said is reasonable.

    What is his self-esteem like? If part of his remaining in a child role is influenced by inner feelings of failure, then his self-concept might perpetuate his behavior. If that is the case, he could interpret a push to get his life together as reinforcement of his feelings of failure. If there are ways to help him develop a self-image in which he is empowered to contribute to those he cares about, he will feel better overall. On some level he knows his actions make him a liability instead of contributor and that does not reinforce a positive view of self. It might help to reinforce compliments of whatever skills he possesses. It is in his best interest for him to function as a contributor. He will feel better and stronger. If he isn't going to seek out opportunities, I might look for a job for him to help get the momentum going. I don't know if there is any access to friends his age who have some ambition to also help motivate him. Maybe if he had a group of friends and a girl he was trying to impress that might help as well. Getting a job one way to meet people. Maybe find a job where there are some cute girls working and see if he sees a reason to apply?
    I have picked up on his lack of esteem, I totally understand that and I did try to nourish and support that with compliments. My resentment of late means I have stopped, but I believe you are right, and I need to start doing it again.

    He seems so defeated. I have applied for jobs for him, I have walked around for hours handing out his CV, I managed to get him out the door to go to an interview today. Getting it will boost his confidence, not getting it could set him further back.

    I have tried the cute girl angle, but in truth he has quite a few girls throwing themselves at him but he lacks even the motivation to care about that. He has told me, and his actions have proven it, that he has zero interest in girls right now as he doesn't feel he is in a proud position, just a bum.

    His ideal is job, money, then girls. His status is how he judges himself and of course he has no status right now.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

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