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Thread: Morality in NTs

  1. #1
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Default Morality in NTs

    You know, I have that discrepancy with my MBTI type from day one. In which I when starting to get intrested in MBTI I read about the NF type being the one who are grounded in morality.

    I can sign that statement, cause living together with a NF for 4 years now showed me how many things there really are happening in the real world that do hurt people and could be done way better.

    It's often those little things and you prolly all know what I mean, when someone gets pissy at the other in the line at the shopping market and the others one reacts pissy aswell. So there is no mutual understanding between people, people rather think their opinion is the only right one and everyone should feel that too.

    So with morality I dont even mean the common understanding in a loyal or military sense only, I mean to have the ability to to some degree anticipate others thoughts and empathize with them.

    ---------------------

    In the four years with my girlfriend I learned much about that. I too was able to calm her down a bit about different things that otherwise would her made be sent to prison by the police for comitting murder .

    So nowadays I might claim that I have developed a finer sense for the life of others and I am more careful when judging their reactions towards me, if there isnt more behind it. Meaning, I dont think of myself as the center of the universe no more, like many people do with their opinions.

    But this kind of attitude ( you may have better words for it, I suck at human ethics / philosophy ) was inspired by my girl, but not created, it was always there.

    So do you think, the term morality in its widest sense, does necessarily need someone to be NF to have it ? Or would you agree that the respectful way to live together with other human beings and have an open mind and imagination for their worldview is a thing every reasonable man can posess ?

    ( Dont pick on me, I am way out my league with that topic )
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    whats morality in its widest sense?
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #3
    Kraken down on piracy Lux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    whats morality in its widest sense?
    Maybe, being "good," thinking "good," and doing "good."
    "It is not length of life, but depth of life." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

    "Thought breeds thought." ~ Henry David Thoreau

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    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    In its first, descriptive usage, morality means a code of conduct or a set of beliefs distinguishing between right and wrong behaviors.
    not that but

    In meta-ethics, a key issue is the meaning of the terms "moral" or "immoral". Moral realism would hold that there are true moral statements which report objective moral facts, whereas moral anti-realism would hold that morality is derived from any one of the norms prevalent in society (cultural relativism); the edicts of a god (divine command theory); is merely an expression of the speakers' sentiments (emotivism); an implied imperative (universal prescriptivism); or falsely presupposes that there are objective moral facts (error theory). Some thinkers hold that there is no correct definition of right behavior, that morality can only be judged with respect to particular situations, within the standards of particular belief systems and socio-historical contexts
    but that !

    --------

    So in that meaning morality is a fluent term, which is defined by the according situation, which goes back to the asumption at the root that it is necessary to respect and understand others.

    What I meant would be to ask myself how far an understanding to respect others would be developed in a NT and why it could be even there.

    To me in the most rational sense its crucial to have for a peaceful living with others, but if it were only that I wouldnt be fascinated about other peoples perceptions of the world and wouldnt want to get to know them.

    So there is a scientific intrest too, I just cant clearly say what motivates this curiosity.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Know that the next person that you treat with unkindness too has problems in their life. It is therefore an unwise choice to make.

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    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    its said that women and men have different ideas of morality. the same is true for (other) types (i picture gender as a modulating function of all the well known cognitive functions (s,n,t,f), but it's also a typology in it self).

    we care about different aspects of how we should get along.

    its said that men care about rules in a football game or in law, and breaking rules is indeed sometimes somewhat amoral. it is said that women care about making exceptions to the rules (for the sake of subjective needs of the one who may have broken the rules) and not making any exceptions ever is indeed somewhat amoral. these are not literal descriptions or female or male morals, but ideas, meant to get your associations going...

    also morality is developed in stages. (which makes any attempt to give literal examples futile anyway)

    actively anticipating the moral ideas (the sub-lines of the developmental line of moral intelligence) of other types would probably be a rather high stage of moral development. in western history, such high stages had not been achieved by big populations until the 60ies, when both female and male gender roles evolved (in a 'rather big' cultural elitist/trendsetting 'minority') to the first stage that makes such an attempt.

    typology is no excuse for being an amoral thinking type

  7. #7
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    That's good, thank you.

    I maybe hunting an invisible sheep, as in I try to find the roots to morality. I think in the end morality isnt even the right word, cause it can be more understood as a code of conduct.


    I have tried for all my life to treat people fair and accept them for whom they are. That's a rather difficult thing to do long term. And I am now at the point in which it intrests me, what the roots are of such a mindset.

    there are many answers, like for example the way you were raised, what you experienced, the chemical balance of neurotransmitters in your brain, but they all do not give a really satisfieing answer, therefore I dont concern with them too deeply, I rather looked for a big picture.

    I dont think I quite know myself what I am looking for
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    There are a fair number of discussions about morality on the INTJ forum to the point that it appears some degree of preoccupation with it. MBTI places it in the domain of Feelers or at least Fi. Morality can be arrived at through different paths. Some of these paths focus on reason, but it tends to require a kind of holistic thinking.

    The concept of the individual acting against the world is a very Western European concept. Most of the positions defined as "immoral" are placing the well being of self as priority over everything else even if this results in socially destructive behaviors. I would argue that many "immoral" positions require an irrational process of dismissing elements that are acting upon its systems. By discounting the interconnectedness of mankind in favor of ensuring only the needs of self, the eventual outcome is likely the destruction of self. The most striking, large scale example of this is the way in which the corporation acts only in self interest as a parasitic entity that will consume and destroy its resources and in the end destroy itself. That is our model of reason in modern society that is used as an antithesis to morality, and it is irrational to its core.

    There are numerous ways of defining "self". From what I understand of it, the basic foundation of sociology analyzes various levels of the "self". The individual is one level, but the family, community/tribe, etc. continuing in the large spheres of social constructs all define the individual. Morality has a great deal to do with how self is defined, how large the circle of self is seen as comprising, how many others it encompasses, and the processes through which the well-being of those within that circle are ensured.

    The leaders of morality in our world like Mother Teresa and Ghandi distill it down to the idea of increasing the circle we count as self to embrace all of humanity.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  9. #9
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    NT morality is less surprising than shallower descriptions make it out to be; but I've experienced this first hand in my daily living.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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  10. #10
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    I just treat people the way I want to be treated. That's as far as my conscious morality goes, but it encompasses a lot.

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