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[ENFP] ENFP+INTJ=Disasterous Combo o' love

Waffle

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
Messages
76
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
2
I know that the INTJ is the suggested "natural partner" for the ENFP, but I can't stand EVERY INTJ I have ever met. I realize that's a hugely mean thing to say (I'm sorry!), but I have yet to be introduced to an INTJ that I liked.
They are vindictive, cold, insensitive, and mooch without so much as a thanks.
I know this most likely isn't true for all INTJ's, but what could be the reason behind these particularly annoying INTJs?
I personally am drawn more towards the INFJ (Albeit, in a much more family-oriented way. My almost-brother friend and my father <3). They tend to be more sensitive and understanding toward the ENFP's natural drama, but also need us to coddle them a little and coax them out of their natural moody shell. Definitely one of my favorite types.
What are your experiences with the INTJ and/or the INFJ, my fellow ENFPs?
 

TopherRed

New member
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Messages
1,272
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
2w3
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I've got a front row seat to an ENFP friend of mine gravitating slowly, but surely to an INTJ asshole. She's desperate at the moment...I don't think she's going to realize either that the INTJ's bad for her, or that she's in "desperation" mode before this collision occurs.

I'm sad to see it happen, but I'm happy for the lesson she's going to get out of it--being content with who she is as a single. It's a pain in the ass, but being self assured, rather than constantly searching, is a guaranteed way to become a double. ;)
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,723
I've got a front row seat to an ENFP friend of mine gravitating slowly, but surely to an INTJ asshole. She's desperate at the moment...I don't think she's going to realize either that the INTJ's bad for her, or that she's in "desperation" mode before this collision occurs.

I'm sad to see it happen, but I'm happy for the lesson she's going to get out of it--being content with who she is as a single. It's a pain in the ass, but being self assured, rather than constantly searching, is a guaranteed way to become a double. ;)

Ok


But would you mind explaining why do you think that this guy is an asshole ?
 

poppy

triple nerd score
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
2,215
MBTI Type
intj
Enneagram
5
INFJ is, I think, a pretty natural match for ENFPs as well :yes: Just as some INTJs would be better matched with ENTPs than ENFPs.
 

TopherRed

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Messages
1,272
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ENFJ
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2w3
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so/sx
Let me specify: My best friend is an INTJ. I love INTJ women (especially Poppy ;)), they don't seem to have the same willingness to put everybody down in the process of finding their way as the men do (and it's cute to watch them try and hold in their frustration).

Just the same, every so often, the INTJ I know goes on a self-righteous, self-improvement mission of some kind (e.g. anti-media diets, so he can't come to our superbowl party that he'd already committed to, or a meaningless regiment to start getting up at 8 in the morning, when he's got a part time job that start at 12:30 in the afternoon, so he can't hang out past 9pm, stuff like that) and blows off all of his friends and family, attempting to try out a new technique for operating in life. Our friends typically respect him enough to let him do it without saying much, but the issue is, whenever he ventures forth on such a mission, all of his prior committments go out the window, and according to the mission he's on, certain people who, by being around them, would counteract his attempts at this new discipline, will cut them out for the duration, until the "lifestyle fad" has played out, and he's tired of committing himself to meaningless disciplines.

It's like male INTJs are self focused and love self-abuse; if you get in the way of the self-abuse at all, you become the abused. My friend in particular has an expectation for everyone to form around him, and support him on his latest endeavor--if we are actually his friends. He doesn't realize how much he puts all of us out.

As far as my ENFP's INTJ is concerned, he's already shown a propensity of stringing her along a bit.

I'm sorry for the stereotype...I've just never met a male INTJ that I'd consider to be really healthy.
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
^ Hmmm. Insightful.

Substantially different priorities at work, but insightful.



And ps, just by the bye:

Just the same, every so often, [ENFPs will go on a] self-righteous, self-improvement mission of some kind (e.g. anti-media diets, so he can't come to our superbowl party that he'd already committed to, or a meaningless regiment to start getting up at 8 in the morning, when he's got a part time job that start at 12:30 in the afternoon, so he can't hang out past 9pm, stuff like that) and blows off all of his friends and family, attempting to try out a new technique for operating in life. Our friends typically respect him enough to let him do it without saying much, but the issue is, whenever he ventures forth on such a mission, all of his prior committments go out the window, and according to the mission he's on, certain people who, by being around them, would counteract his attempts at this new discipline, will cut them out for the duration, until the "lifestyle fad" has played out, and he's tired of committing himself to meaningless disciplines.


The difference being an ENFP'll be really, really sorry they forgot about what you'd planned.
 

TopherRed

New member
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Messages
1,272
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ENFJ
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2w3
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so/sx
Fascinating. :) I don't care about the ENFPs being flaky because of the F-er. No wonder you two would make such a good fit.
 

Wonkavision

Retired Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
1,154
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w8
^ Hmmm. Insightful.

Substantially different priorities at work, but insightful.



And ps, just by the bye:

Just the same, every so often, [ENFPs will go on a] self-righteous, self-improvement mission of some kind (e.g. anti-media diets, so he can't come to our superbowl party that he'd already committed to, or a meaningless regiment to start getting up at 8 in the morning, when he's got a part time job that start at 12:30 in the afternoon, so he can't hang out past 9pm, stuff like that) and blows off all of his friends and family, attempting to try out a new technique for operating in life. Our friends typically respect him enough to let him do it without saying much, but the issue is, whenever he ventures forth on such a mission, all of his prior committments go out the window, and according to the mission he's on, certain people who, by being around them, would counteract his attempts at this new discipline, will cut them out for the duration, until the "lifestyle fad" has played out, and he's tired of committing himself to meaningless disciplines.

Yeah--I was gonna say, I kinda relate to that, in a way. :D


The difference being an ENFP'll be really, really sorry they forgot about what you'd planned.

True story. :yes:
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
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25,183
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ISFP
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6w7
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sx
Hmmm. I'm fascinated by INTJs both IRL and on-line. Never had a relationship with one, but I don't see why it would be disasterous.
 
G

garbage

Guest
My experiences in a relationship with an INTJ made me want to stab myself. I'm just gonna quote my experience from yesterday's post:

Not to say anything about the type as a whole, but.. over time, she became insanely critical and demanding, and I was getting more and more insecure. When I called her on her tendencies, she'd turn it back on me. It was as if she could dish it out, but she couldn't take it.

I actually came to resent her over time, even though, strangely enough, I was still there for her. I wanted out, but couldn't bring myself to end it. When we finally did end it, I was stupid and immature and, primarily out of a lack of self-esteem, wanted her back. In response, she'd completely shut me out of conversations, send me blunt and hurtful emails, and not acknowledge me, all of which hurt me even more.

You'll probably find a few hundred posts of mine about that particular relationship if you look hard enough :doh:

That said, this was one experience. I was, as I said, stupid and immature; likely, so was she. But she was also older than me and had been through a few relationships, where I had not, so she probably didn't have much more growing to do.

I dunno.. I could try a different INTJ again, knowing what I know now, but I'd probably rather go for the INTP variety. Seems like a better fit for me overall; I need that spontaneity in a partner, so long as she's matured with some judging tendencies. In any case, Thinker women are a dime a dozen around here..

I don't think I've ever met a (definite) INFJ, so I can't comment on those.
 

Wiley45

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Mar 3, 2009
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The ENFP's I know in RL come across as way too flaky to impress the INTJ's I know in RL, and the INTJ's I know in RL come across as too rude and unconcerned toward others to attract any ENFP's.

Even though the male ENFP's seem to be less kooky and the female INTJ's seem to be a little more ... nice ... (only in my personal experience so far, mind you), I still don't see it working with anybody I know.
 

Thalassa

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My experiences in a relationship with an INTJ made me want to stab myself. I'm just gonna quote my experience from yesterday's post:



You'll probably find a few hundred posts of mine about that particular relationship if you look hard enough :doh:

That said, this was one experience. I was, as I said, stupid and immature; likely, so was she. But she was also older than me and had been through a few relationships, where I had not, so she probably didn't have much more growing to do.

I dunno.. I could try a different INTJ again, knowing what I know now, but I'd probably rather go for the INTP variety. Seems like a better fit for me overall; I need that spontaneity in a partner, so long as she's matured with some judging tendencies. In any case, Thinker women are a dime a dozen around here..

I don't think I've ever met a (definite) INFJ, so I can't comment on those.

I think this kind of thing has nothing to do with type. Lots of people - no matter type - when they are hurt will put up a defense mechanism of shutting people out or being mean first so you can't get to them. If you were as immature as you say you were, she could just have been frustrated with that and taking on the "parent" role in the relationship. I am an ENFP and I have been forced into my TJ shadow by a very immature boyfriend before, and I hated being the person "in control" but I felt like someone had to be. I don't like that feeling. I actually would rather the other person be slightly more in control, which is probably why *the idea* of INTJs fascinates me.

I don't know the details of your relationship, but I don't necessarily see this dynamic as being type based.
 
G

garbage

Guest
I think this kind of thing has nothing to do with type. Lots of people - no matter type - when they are hurt will put up a defense mechanism of shutting people out or being mean first so you can't get to them. If you were as immature as you say you were, she could just have been frustrated with that and taking on the "parent" role in the relationship.
...
I don't know the details of your relationship, but I don't necessarily see this dynamic as being type based.

Whoops, this is what I get for being lazy and just quoting a previous post of mine. I should've provided something better for this context.

I'll say that, from my point of view, I found her to be critical of pretty much everyone and everything.. not just me. She failed to conceive that a person who she disagrees with might well be right until they proved themselves 100% to her; I didn't like that mindset. That whole "judging first" thing was very apparent, and I don't know if I could deal with that if it weren't tempered. Hell, she outright said a few times that I was the best boyfriend she'd ever had, and she was still critical of me. It didn't make sense to me at all. My experience may or may not be typical, but it corroborates the OP.

That's not discounting anything you've said here regarding our particular dynamic and aspects of it that might not be type-based, but I figured that I should expand the context a bit.
 

Thalassa

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Whoops, this is what I get for being lazy and just quoting a previous post of mine. I should've provided something better for this context.

I'll say that, from my point of view, I found her to be critical of pretty much everyone and everything.. not just me. She failed to conceive that a person who she disagrees with might well be right until they proved themselves 100% to her; I didn't like that mindset. That whole "judging first" thing was very apparent, and I don't know if I could deal with that if it weren't tempered. Hell, she outright said a few times that I was the best boyfriend she'd ever had, and she was still critical of me. It didn't make sense to me at all. My experience may or may not be typical, but it corroborates the OP.

That's not discounting anything you've said here regarding our particular dynamic and aspects of it that might not be type-based, but I figured that I should expand the context a bit.

My ex is one of the nastiest, meanest, most critical and provocative people I've ever met and I think he's an SP (I have an extraordinarily hard time typing him) ...I would call him an NTJ because of his critical, domineering yet imaginative seemingly-in-touch-with-Ni side, but he never got anything done EVAR...complete lack of motivation in the real world which leans more toward immature P.

Despite all of this, when I got mad at him for something he did (or didn't do) he referred to me as a "cold, hyperanalytical Nazi" ...who couldn't just "let him be" which is fucking laughable considering the fact that he thought he was artistically superior to everyone, thought his taste in film and music trumped everyones, was always pulling an Alpha male card amongst his friends, and prided himself on being in control (downright abusive at times), though he never accomplished anything tangible and often let other people down in big, really inexcusable ways. (I would feel really bad if I did not add here that we really clicked in a lot of ways mentally and emotionally, and he could be so sweet and loving and romantic when he wanted to be. I basically had to break up with him to save myself.)

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that dysfunctional relationships are dysfunctional, regardless of type, and often our perceptions of each other are just that...perceptions based upon personal feelings and context.

Therefore, I'm going to get on the bandwagon who says maybe type isn't indicative of who you can or cannot have a good relationship with. So many other factors.
 

thescientist

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Jul 23, 2009
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I'll say that, from my point of view, I found her to be critical of pretty much everyone and everything.. not just me. She failed to conceive that a person who she disagrees with might well be right until they proved themselves 100% to her; I didn't like that mindset. That whole "judging first" thing was very apparent, and I don't know if I could deal with that if it weren't tempered. Hell, she outright said a few times that I was the best boyfriend she'd ever had, and she was still critical of me. It didn't make sense to me at all. My experience may or may not be typical, but it corroborates the OP.

I'm weak on the J and over time I have grown to be less critical of others and am much more positive. It's something I consciously worked on for a long time. I think it comes with maturity and self-awareness. Had to flush that negativity OUT!

Never been in an "official" relationship with an ENFP, but I am drawn to them like moths to a flame, and them to me it seems :). Looking back, I think all of my major crushes have been on ENFP guys. However, I'd say the ENFP male probably takes WAAAAY longer to mature than the INTJ female. Younger ENFP's are way too fickle and in my experience, disloyal and emotionally manipulative. So I guess I'll have mine when I'm an old hag.

I could definitely see the potential if INTJ learned how to be supportive of ENFP's endeavors and not critical of them and if ENFP was fully committed and less sensitive to sarcasm/criticism.

I think I see this pairing quite often. It's such a cute dynamic.
 

Waffle

New member
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Dec 4, 2009
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76
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ENFP
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2
^ Hmmm. Insightful.

Substantially different priorities at work, but insightful.



And ps, just by the bye:

Just the same, every so often, [ENFPs will go on a] self-righteous, self-improvement mission of some kind (e.g. anti-media diets, so he can't come to our superbowl party that he'd already committed to, or a meaningless regiment to start getting up at 8 in the morning, when he's got a part time job that start at 12:30 in the afternoon, so he can't hang out past 9pm, stuff like that) and blows off all of his friends and family, attempting to try out a new technique for operating in life. Our friends typically respect him enough to let him do it without saying much, but the issue is, whenever he ventures forth on such a mission, all of his prior committments go out the window, and according to the mission he's on, certain people who, by being around them, would counteract his attempts at this new discipline, will cut them out for the duration, until the "lifestyle fad" has played out, and he's tired of committing himself to meaningless disciplines.


The difference being an ENFP'll be really, really sorry they forgot about what you'd planned.

Funny. I've never had that problem. I always follow through on set plans, and if two clash, I always make time for my friends (Especially if it's personal plans, then everyone else comes first).
I can't stand being a flake or flakes. It's an annoying attribute.
I will be honest and say I'm often late, but I always call ahead to warn that I might/will be.
 
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