[ENFP] ENFP+INTJ=Disasterous Combo o' love

[Poki]

No, it's more a state of mind with the Ni just being itself. With most people, I have to either focus on the person or ignore them, as Kra describes in a slightly different way.

It's the reason with have trouble with intimacy. Our "intimate" is very focused and intimate, and not a relaxed state of mind. If we're "being ourselves" with you, that means having you there, being there for you, but it also means we're in our heads, both worlds existing at once, side-by-side. To listen to you carefully, or to be very intimate with you, means putting aside our inner world, and that inner world is represented by "Ni", our primary function. We're willing to do it, but it expends energy on our part, the same way being expressive of our emotions requires energy from us.

So, if an INTJ isn't focused on you, it feels less intimate, but it also means we're just being ourselves, recharging our batteries, and so on. It also means there's kind of a hot-and-cold thing going on, that feels awkward if you don't understand it. Our emotions aren't going hot and cold. If I love someone, it is with all of my heart (cf. hands-holding-sun pic I posted elsewhere on this forum to represent Fi). It doesn't go away just because I am quiet. It just isn't being projected outward.

I've a close female friend whom I'm fairly sure is INTJ. Her bf of 7 years left her, because he didn't feel like she loved him. My ex-wife left me largely because she felt I didn't love her. It's a real problem for INTJs.

This is probably your Se that is draining you. I can hit this without extending any energy whatsoever and be in both at once. For me to reach this though I need to understand you to an extent or that Ne-Ni divide is to large and I get left behind with nothing to add or say. If you dont mind this soundboard then I will be perfectly comfortable and I wont dive into Ni, but just chime in at parts of Ne that I understand. I then churn away with Ti-Ni when I am quiet and Fi just kinda comes and goes depending on where my TiNi leads me. Its like dissecting our interactions and the flow that was happening. Which can lead to other emotions surfacing after the fact.

This soundboard is still intimacy and I enjoy it as long as I dont have to dive into Ni to much. As I learn someone then it becomes more back and forth without leaving this intimacy state.

Its probably confusing because my Fi for a person is not gone, its just not always conscious. Only certain emotions are conscious at a time. If you are in a state where we are acting like friends, thats where my emotions move to, when things become intimate, my emotions follow. I tend to follow people emotionally, but those emotions actually have to exist within myself. If you hit intimate without it existing in me then I feel awkward and is somewhere that still needs to be built up.

 

[sculpting]

ahhhh, I love the madmins!!!

 

[sculpting]

hello other enfps-

Do you find yourself feeling an emotive response-something like love/bliss/joy when you look at things like the attached picture? Like an emotional Fi response but directed externally to things that are not people or value based, just beautifully complex and serene?

 

[sculpting]

Its probably confusing because my Fi for a person is not gone, its just not always conscious. Only certain emotions are conscious at a time. If you are in a state where we are acting like friends, thats where my emotions move to, when things become intimate, my emotions follow. I tend to follow people emotionally, but those emotions actually have to exist within myself. If you hit intimate without it existing in me then I feel awkward and is somewhere that still needs to be built up.

you know poki, I think that the last part -about "hitting intimate" is where a lot of enfp-entp problems come from. ENFPs just jump straight to Fi typically. We dont have that middle ground of Fe to allow for moderation in emotional interaction. Fi is kinda all or none maybe?

I have had a few ENTPs say they may have brief moments of Fi, but only for those they are exceptionally close to and then it is really disabling. Yet assuming enfps can induce Fi in others, and often do it so naturally, we just end up right in the middle of their emo shit, inducing weird emo vibes, and it screws with their heads. ENFPs are like aliens eating the brains of ENTPs with cute little rainbow colored teeth of love.

I saw this with my ISTP as well when I cheated with Fe. Suddenly I understood what sort of emo and nurturing he had always needed, but I never could have given him. Unlike you, he responds to Fi a bit more like the ENTPs all of the time-it repulses him.

 

[Poki]

you know poki, I think that the last part -about "hitting intimate" is where a lot of enfp-entp problems come from. ENFPs just jump straight to Fi typically. We dont have that middle ground of Fe to allow for moderation in emotional interaction. Fi is kinda all or none maybe?

I have had a few ENTPs say they may have brief moments of Fi, but only for those they are exceptionally close to and then it is really disabling. Yet assuming enfps can induce Fi in others, and often do it so naturally, we just end up right in the middle of their emo shit, inducing weird emo vibes, and it screws with their heads. ENFPs are like aliens eating the brains of ENTPs with cute little rainbow colored teeth of love.

I saw this with my ISTP as well when I cheated with Fe. Suddenly I understood what sort of emo and nurturing he had always needed, but I never could have given him. Unlike you, he responds to Fi a bit more like the ENTPs all of the time-it repulses him.

It strange you say this. It has actually crossed my mind alot that if I would actually let things in my life not roll off and if I wasnt so laid back that I would have alot easier time with Fe. But I have always been able to figure out how to let things roll off of me instead of holding onto alot of emo crap. If I had emo crap to deal with it would make Fe feel needed. The hard part though is that in a lot of relationships, work, friends, bosses, etc. her Fe does support the emo crap, but these people pour the crap onto her making her face feelings of guilt instead of allowing her to support the crap. Her dad has alot of emo crap from life that he rediates and vents TO her instead of AT her. This is the healthy form of emo crap that Fe can deal with. She has said to me how people just need to vent and just need to be listened to and talked with and nurtured. I can handle and enjoy the venting and listening, I am not so good with the nurturing though. My Fe is better with people who just need to vent to get things off their chest and then move on.

I think we need to add an extra letter to MBTI to split the people like your ISTP ex and myself into seperate categories. Those who can handle emo and those who cant. I think some ENTPs can handle emo, we just dont recognize them because they arent recognized as they dont have as much problems.

To me lack of ability to handle emo crap and those that need the nurture is a weak or immature Fi that needs to be babied.

 

[uumlau]

I saw this with my ISTP as well when I cheated with Fe. Suddenly I understood what sort of emo and nurturing he had always needed, but I never could have given him. Unlike you, he responds to Fi a bit more like the ENTPs all of the time-it repulses him.

I'd be very interested to learn your impression of Fe vs Fi. What is the difference in "style," if you will?

I think we need to add an extra letter to MBTI to split the people like your ISTP ex and myself into seperate categories. Those who can handle emo and those who cant. I think some ENTPs can handle emo, we just dont recognize them because they arent recognized as they dont have as much problems.

To me lack of ability to handle emo crap and those that need the nurture is a weak or immature Fi that needs to be babied.

I don't think it's quite a personality trait in the MBTI sense. There is a "Neuroticism" component in Global 5 / SLOAN which is basically "MBTI with one extra letter". I don't believe this describes an "ability to handle emo crap" so much as "how much emo crap you generate for yourself" property.

With respect to "an ability to handle emo crap," I believe that is simple maturity. Not Fe. Not Fi.

 

[SillySapienne]

hello other enfps-

Do you find yourself feeling an emotive response-something like love/bliss/joy when you look at things like the attached picture? Like an emotional Fi response but directed externally to things that are not people or value based, just beautifully complex and serene?

That is Beauty, in one of its infinite manifestations.




It evokes almost an opposite feeling than this...

^But, is that not beautiful?

 

[sculpting]

To me lack of ability to handle emo crap and those that need the nurture is a weak or immature Fi that needs to be babied.

No poki, that's the funny part-he is also very good at letting emo roll off, but once he hit 30, Fe became very prominent-but only to people he really cares about. To me his Fe sounds very whiny, a bit guilt trip like and I revert to Te to force him to be responsible. This goes poorly. From an Fe view though, it isnt whiny at all-it is him trying to communicate a need indirectly and I think another Fe user would find it sweet and feel a desire to nurture him. It's just miscommunication. But yeah, he doesnt get Fi at all.

That is Beauty, in one of its infinite manifestations.




It evokes almost an opposite feeling than this...

^But, is that not beautiful?

no, not beautiful at all. What's up with that pic SS? It actually creates a very strong sense of repulsive dissonance within me. Odd as I usually like very complex patterns and Ne-swimming my way through them. I think the red shirt pattern plus the recognition they are people-it evokes strong stress-avoidance responses in me on a visceral level.

 

[uumlau]

No poki, that's the funny part-he is also very good at letting emo roll off, but once he hit 30, Fe became very prominent-but only to people he really cares about. To me his Fe sounds very whiny, a bit guilt trip like and I revert to Te to force him to be responsible. This goes poorly. From an Fe view though, it isnt whiny at all-it is him trying to communicate a need indirectly and I think another Fe user would find it sweet and feel a desire to nurture him. It's just miscommunication. But yeah, he doesnt get Fi at all.

So would you say that Fe, at least as you perceive it to be expressed by your ex, is passive and indirect about expressing one's own feelings? That one with an Fi perspective would be more willing to say "I want X," while the Fe perspective might say, "What do you think about X?" all the while hoping that directing the conversation toward X will result in getting X?

 

[Uytuun]

"You are the most relaxed intense person I know."

I got calm ocean with volcano under the surface from an ESTP. He said it was frightening (because he couldn't read me).

 

[tastes_like_purple]

I adore INFJs, had a relationship with one for a long time.
As for INTJs, I find them too cold. It's like they're hollow or something I cant quite
put my finger on it.

 

[Synarch]

I got calm ocean with volcano under the surface from an ESTP. He said it was frightening (because he couldn't read me).

That's the thing that intimidates EXTP's about INXJ's. The composure. The apparent calm and self-control. The smooth surface concealing everything inside the shell. It's unsettling to people who do "quick reads".

I have very little self control. I fake it by limiting my exposure to things, which is really not self-control. It's environment control. So, this is another thing that is hard to relate to.

 

[Uytuun]

That's the thing that intimidates EXTP's about INXJ's. The composure. The apparent calm and self-control. The smooth surface concealing everything inside the shell. It's unsettling to people who do "quick reads".

I have very little self control. I fake it by limiting my exposure to things, which is really not self-control. It's environment control. So, this is another thing that is hard to relate to.

Hehe, I'm (we're) not always composed...that's why he knows about the volcano. But I can play around with him and then power down and go into "buddha mode" as he calls it...he'll often try to provoke me when I'm in that mood...just to get some kind of reaction because he doesn't get where his playmate went - kind of like poking a monkey with a stick (he does that with INFJs too) -...that and I'm notoriously unforthcoming about what goes on on the inside except with a chosen few...I feel like I'm like a walking question mark that sometimes pops into his life, yells "TITS!*" and then disappears again. Inconsistent maybe...mysterious as the INJ cliché would have it. I do get why INJs come across like that to ETPs. Sorry if it's confusing.

*this is my brother, it may sound wrong, but it really isn't...we're the kind of people that yell "TITS!" at each other randomly...brightens up the day

Also, the "self-control" of the INJ is vastly overrated and kind of depends on your perspective. But you may have found that out already when you dove beyond the surface.

 

[sculpting]

So would you say that Fe, at least as you perceive it to be expressed by your ex, is passive and indirect about expressing one's own feelings? That one with an Fi perspective would be more willing to say "I want X," while the Fe perspective might say, "What do you think about X?" all the while hoping that directing the conversation toward X will result in getting X?

U, I think Fe and Fi are different languages. I think this is due to the functions being inherent, individualized neural modules that program how we communicate with the outside world. The voice, eye movements, facial expressions-even on a micro musculature level, the cadence of speech, where the emphasis is placed in a sentence words all differs. The words used will differ.:

Fe: tends to use group words, we, us, the team, together (which can feel very manipulative and controlling to an Fi user "we should do...." implying what "I" SHOULD do..)

Fi: speaks it terms of "I". i feel this, I did that. Watch Fi users interact. Fi user 1: I did this. Fi user 2: I did something like that-tells us what they did. On the surface this looks self centered. In reality is Fi-mirroring. "I have felt what you feel" then typically followed by Te advice "Thus you might try this approach to solving this problem which worked for me in the past"

Te: Very blunt-"you should do this..." "This needs to be done.." "Do this next" "This is the problem" yeah, kinda bossy.

Ti: I think it is sort of all in third person but not blunt like Te-"The problem consists of these variables, this flaw, this aspect. " I'd have to let the Ti users chime in though. I think it sort of mirrors the way Fi does, but is mirroring data/analysis/information-rethinking their thoughts maybe????, not another's emo, thus doesnt speak in the first person. I dunno on this one.

wrt to the ex ISTP:

He was kinda screwed honestly, poor guy. I grew up with a family that used Fi manipulatively as a tool and weapon. They show you their Fi pain (ie whining), understanding inherently another Fi user will mirror that pain and be forced to help them. This only lasts so long before you build Te walls-that force the other Fi user to be accountable.

So he would try and use Fe to structure his own needs, plan a situation, or seek my support. He would say "we need to do this or that". I would translate that to "Fi speak", and see whiny or hear "You should have done this or that and didnt...". Thus I would respond with Te to try and force him to be accountable and responsible or defend my own actions.

Didnt lead to fights, just a cool approach where he used Ti and I used Te. A functional partnership.

As for emotional expression-I think Fe is much more likely to say "I feel this and need this emotional response from you" (I cant even speak Fe so that sounds all Te flavored ). Fi doesnt speak. You can see Fi by the things never said, the pauses. It is difficult to enunciate Fi. Not the silly NeFi us ENFPs use to play with, or how I can speak about Fi using Te. Really speaking with Fi-well thats kinda mute.

 

[Poki]

U, I think Fe and Fi are different languages. I think this is due to the functions being inherent, individualized neural modules that program how we communicate with the outside world. The voice, eye movements, facial expressions-even on a micro musculature level, the cadence of speech, where the emphasis is placed in a sentence words all differs. The words used will differ.:

Fe: tends to use group words, we, us, the team, together (which can feel very manipulative and controlling to an Fi user "we should do...." implying what "I" SHOULD do..)

Fi: speaks it terms of "I". i feel this, I did that. Watch Fi users interact. Fi user 1: I did this. Fi user 2: I did something like that-tells us what they did. On the surface this looks self centered. In reality is Fi-mirroring. "I have felt what you feel" then typically followed by Te advice "Thus you might try this approach to solving this problem which worked for me in the past"

Te: Very blunt-"you should do this..." "This needs to be done.." "Do this next" "This is the problem" yeah, kinda bossy.

Ti: I think it is sort of all in third person but not blunt like Te-"The problem consists of these variables, this flaw, this aspect. " I'd have to let the Ti users chime in though. I think it sort of mirrors the way Fi does, but is mirroring data/analysis/information-rethinking their thoughts maybe????, not another's emo, thus doesnt speak in the first person. I dunno on this one.

wrt to the ex ISTP:

He was kinda screwed honestly, poor guy. I grew up with a family that used Fi manipulatively as a tool and weapon. They show you their Fi pain (ie whining), understanding inherently another Fi user will mirror that pain and be forced to help them. This only lasts so long before you build Te walls-that force the other Fi user to be accountable.

So he would try and use Fe to structure his own needs, plan a situation, or seek my support. He would say "we need to do this or that". I would translate that to "Fi speak", and see whiny or hear "You should have done this or that and didnt...". Thus I would respond with Te to try and force him to be accountable and responsible or defend my own actions.

Didnt lead to fights, just a cool approach where he used Ti and I used Te. A functional partnership.

As for emotional expression-I think Fe is much more likely to say "I feel this and need this emotional response from you" (I cant even speak Fe so that sounds all Te flavored ). Fi doesnt speak. You can see Fi by the things never said, the pauses. It is difficult to enunciate Fi. Not the silly NeFi us ENFPs use to play with, or how I can speak about Fi using Te. Really speaking with Fi-well thats kinda mute.

I match your Te style of communication because I tend to walk people through things real time. I am not one who gets all the details, analyzes it, then comes up with a plan of action. If you call me I am actually figuring it out as we speak. If I need to do research I will, then get back to you with things to try. I dont generally bring in the details but the idea so tend to call back several times as I work through it to verify the details maybe try a few things in the interim.

I get the impression "I feel this and need this emotional response from you", but dont actually here the words. Fe knows whats socially expected and thinks others do as well. This catches me off guard as I dont understand what I am not supposed to say or do at time and say things I shouldnt have or not say things I should have.

In regards to uumlau. Recently I have had a conversation with an Fe user where she wanted something and tried to convince me. I responded "I dont want it, but if you want it I am fine with it" her response was "I want you to want it though". This is possibly Fe feeling selfish and wants the group to want something to keep from feeling selfish.

 

[Thalassa]

U, I think Fe and Fi are different languages. I think this is due to the functions being inherent, individualized neural modules that program how we communicate with the outside world. The voice, eye movements, facial expressions-even on a micro musculature level, the cadence of speech, where the emphasis is placed in a sentence words all differs. The words used will differ.:

Fe: tends to use group words, we, us, the team, together (which can feel very manipulative and controlling to an Fi user "we should do...." implying what "I" SHOULD do..)

Fi: speaks it terms of "I". i feel this, I did that. Watch Fi users interact. Fi user 1: I did this. Fi user 2: I did something like that-tells us what they did. On the surface this looks self centered. In reality is Fi-mirroring. "I have felt what you feel" then typically followed by Te advice "Thus you might try this approach to solving this problem which worked for me in the past"

Using the word "we" doesn't bother me as much, especially in terms of one-on-one friendships or relationships, or even in small tight-knit groups I happen to like it. I guess "we" bothers me more when it's overly generalized to a larger group, in a work situation, the entire family, etc. OR if it's used condecendingly ("now, we don't do that marmalade, do we?" )

I totally relate to the Fi thing though. If I tell my story, and another Fi user tells me theirs, it comforts me. It's empathy. Identifying.

However, I remember in one literature class I took this guy (who most likely an ISFJ, I'm pretty certain - I knew him outside of the class, we were friends at one point) used to get really annoyed because I would almost always relate things characters experienced in stories we read for the class back to myself or people I know. He thought it was self-absorbed, and openly expressed that thought, but it was just my way of trying to understand the experiences and feelings of others.

Te: Very blunt-"you should do this..." "This needs to be done.." "Do this next" "This is the problem" yeah, kinda bossy.

Ti: I think it is sort of all in third person but not blunt like Te-"The problem consists of these variables, this flaw, this aspect. " I'd have to let the Ti users chime in though. I think it sort of mirrors the way Fi does, but is mirroring data/analysis/information-rethinking their thoughts maybe????, not another's emo, thus doesnt speak in the first person. I dunno on this one.

I can't discern whether or not this is my experience of Te vs. Ti. I think I kind of like the bossiness of Te if I respect the intelligence of the person being "bossy." It can make me feel safe or cared for (issues with ISTJ father figure???!!!) Te bossiness only becomes a problem for me if I think the person exerting it is a tool...I'm sure this has happened on more than one occasion with STJ bosses in the work place.

Ti users, I think, I respect in terms of academic theory, but bother me more in personal conversation because the stuff they say can sound so convuluted and speculative and even gets confusing. I'm not saying it's never helpful, though, because the way INFJs use Ti is extremely palatable to me.

As for emotional expression-I think Fe is much more likely to say "I feel this and need this emotional response from you" (I cant even speak Fe so that sounds all Te flavored ). Fi doesnt speak. You can see Fi by the things never said, the pauses. It is difficult to enunciate Fi. Not the silly NeFi us ENFPs use to play with, or how I can speak about Fi using Te. Really speaking with Fi-well thats kinda mute.

My experiences with being super-close to Fe doms is to feel manipulated by it, honestly. My ESFJ friend pretty much makes me do things by doing things for me...I would feel too guilty not doing these things, because she greases the wheels. My ENFJ sister used to love to lecture me about how I "should" behave in different situations - sometimes to the point of not seeing her own fault in the same or similar situations. While I love her tact and her expertise with soothing ruffled feathers, this trait makes me want to choke her if I spend too much time with her.

I've also known an extremely unhealthy ISFJ who liked to buy people little gifts or perform small acts of kindness all of the time then quietly - then eventually not so quietly but passive-aggressive manipulatively - would seethe with resentment if they didn't read her mind and do exactly what she wanted.

That being said, my ENFJ best friend from high school just uses her Fe dom to "love the world" which means she's lovey-dovey, helpful, able to lead relationship dynamics, and her major downfall is just being over-committed to too many people then getting flakey. My ENFJ sister does that too.

I love the way that healthy INFJs use Fe. They're like da bomb, totally. Healthy INFJs are so damn smooth. They should all be counselors or official peacemakers and diplomats.

I think speaking with Fi is "mute" between fellow Fi users ... kind of like we "feel" each other. On the other hand, it can just present itself as either authentic, inspired, passionate... or as selfish displays of emotion, depending on whether the Fi is used in a negative or positive manner.

 

[Poki]

He was kinda screwed honestly, poor guy. I grew up with a family that used Fi manipulatively as a tool and weapon. They show you their Fi pain (ie whining), understanding inherently another Fi user will mirror that pain and be forced to help them. This only lasts so long before you build Te walls-that force the other Fi user to be accountable.

I grew up with Fi and my wall is Ni.

Ti users, I think, I respect in terms of academic theory, but bother me more in personal conversation because the stuff they say can sound so convuluted and speculative and even gets confusing. I'm not saying it's never helpful, though, because the way INFJs use Ti is extremely palatable to me.

Thats why it doesnt come out much for me in real life. I am well aware how convoluted and speculative it is. I use it heavily on a personal level to get things done and sometimes it is called upon to confuse the crap out of Te and run circles around things. Its used heavily when Js become stubborn. Nothing more effective then throwing a whole lot out on the table to keep J types from actually being able to come to a conclusion. Probably a protection mechanism.

 

[sculpting]

I match your Te style of communication because I tend to walk people through things real time.

That sounds like TiSe working together to feel like Te? Sound right? I dunno..

I responded "I dont want it, but if you want it I am fine with it" her response was "I want you to want it though". This is possibly Fe feeling selfish and wants the group to want something to keep from feeling selfish.

This is where me and Fe part ways-I dont even understand her response here. If I want something I just say so, recognizing it may make the other person angry. When younger I would also just Fi clam up and then pout, but with an ISTP this was VERY pointless as he didnt see the Fi withdraw at all, thus my immature pouting was all in vain.

Using the word "we" doesn't bother me as much, especially in terms of one-on-one friendships or relationships, or even in small tight-knit groups I happen to like it. I guess "we" bothers me more when it's overly generalized to a larger group, in a work situation, the entire family, etc. OR if it's used condecendingly ("now, we don't do that marmalade, do we?" )

I totally relate to the Fi thing though. If I tell my story, and another Fi user tells me theirs, it comforts me. It's empathy. Identifying.

However, I remember in one literature class I took this guy (who most likely an ISFJ, I'm pretty certain - I knew him outside of the class, we were friends at one point) used to get really annoyed because I would almost always relate things characters experienced in stories we read for the class back to myself or people I know. He thought it was self-absorbed, and openly expressed that thought, but it was just my way of trying to understand the experiences and feelings of others.

Proteo pointed out the "I" thing. I really had no idea how much it annoys the Fe users. It's just the way I speak and think when using Fi. Using Te will switch to a very third person directive written or spoken language for me. So I am either selfish or bossy. What's a girl to do?

What I actually did is took Proteo's advice and watch how I used speech. I stopped mirroring with Fe doms and auxs, and I try to ask them how they are doing. I try and communicate with Te with them as it seems more effective. Now when I interact with Fi users-even ISTJs-I very consciously mirror them, to the point they seek me out for emotional comfort.

(Hmmm, I gave Amar a hard time about nudging, but I do it with the ISTJs for sure-just pure Fi blasts of appreciation and caring. I have had one get a little flirty but well, we were flirting a little. With the ISTJs the message seems to not get confused with sexual innuendos of any sort. This is not true with NTPs.)

The Fe doms do drive me nuts with "group terms". Te says "Do this because it is the new way to do it." followed by a silent shut the fuck up and quit complaining. Fe says "The company has decided to follow a new procedure and with all of us working together as a team and we anticipate it will be a great success." so dont complain or you arent part of our team.

However the take home is to ignore the discomfort the "we" terms induce and ask them very directly for what deliverables I owe. The other aspect is to be able to say clearly-No, I cannot do that for you-and not let the group "we" guilt induced make me change my mind.

I can't discern whether or not this is my experience of Te vs. Ti. I think I kind of like the bossiness of Te if I respect the intelligence of the person being "bossy." It can make me feel safe or cared for (issues with ISTJ father figure???!!!) Te bossiness only becomes a problem for me if I think the person exerting it is a tool...I'm sure this has happened on more than one occasion with STJ bosses in the work place.

Ti users, I think, I respect in terms of academic theory, but bother me more in personal conversation because the stuff they say can sound so convuluted and speculative and even gets confusing. I'm not saying it's never helpful, though, because the way INFJs use Ti is extremely palatable to me.

IXTJs are a riot. I bring out the Ne in my ISTJs and make them all act kind a nuts honestly, although workplace stress and age may be a factor. Te just says stuff. Blunt, rude, offensive, harsh critical, fucked up shit. Then we all laugh our asses off. All of my INTJs are older and more reserved as well as more rare. (INTJs are weird) As my ENTPs and I get old, I find I offend their growing Fe, thus it can be hard to keep many of them close. It's sad as there is nothing more fun than Te no holds barred debate and discussion.

Ti is another language-no shit. Te cant follow down Ti's path for more than a few steps, then it starts to get filled in with "blah, blah, blah". I read my entps emails to her aloud and fill them in with spoken blah, blah, blahs. She almost killed me.

I am at the point where I can pick up a journal article and tell if it was written by Ti or Te, depending upon how I can follow it. On the converse, Ti cant think like Te either, so the ENTPs I work with can get so caught up in theory and a multitude of ideas but never get the Te big picture objective.

The next time you and OMT start a lovemaking session, after each post take about an hour to think over what he wrote-you have to translate his Ti into your Te, which is hard without getting pissed.

My experiences with being super-close to Fe doms is to feel manipulated by it, honestly.

I love the way that healthy INFJs use Fe. They're like da bomb, totally. Healthy INFJs are so damn smooth. They should all be counselors or official peacemakers and diplomats.

I think speaking with Fi is "mute" between fellow Fi users ... kind of like we "feel" each other. On the other hand, it can just present itself as either authentic, inspired, passionate... or as selfish displays of emotion, depending on whether the Fi is used in a negative or positive manner.

Try this-ask your Fe users to be totally honest and give you critique about things that they find irritating. When Proteo will do this here, I learn amazing stuff that I never would have thought to question. "Really, I do that? Really, it's irritating?"

It's hard to do this with ENTPs as it is such a visceral response from them, and it can be really hard to identify specific things to change, but ENFJs are awesome.

Take the identified "issue", try and detach yourself from the emotional response and really figure out why you do it. When is it good? When is it bad? Is it close enough to your core that you can't not do it-like the emo emissions that drive the ENTPs nuts. Or is it something you can tone down recognizing it is not productive with everyone-the Fi mirroring for instance.

Just my two cents though, bout how I use all this stuff. All just suggestions, so sorry if it seems bossy.

 

[Mr.Time]

Now I don't mean to be rude, but I am going to say it like it is: you're a retard.
Strictly statistically speaking, of course.

ETA: Oh wait, you're the guy who got pwned by that ENFP chick, right? Get over your Weltschmerz, comforting yourself won't help a thing.

This is very uncharacteristic of me...but go Fuck yourself!

 

[Ecton]

Hey, my wife tests as a strong INTJ. She is not anything like the topic post's initial negative description.

My Wife:
They are vindictive: not at all
cold: sometimes cold, but usually by negligence (lack of perceiving feelings.) Otherwise, she is very warm when I tell her how I feel
insensitive: can be, but usually when stressed. If you get past the stress she can be very sensitive
and mooch without so much as a thanks: never

Are you basing your assessment on people who have been formally tested, or just on your labeling of people as INTJs?

Now, I will tell you that I have met many traditional 'jerks' who are INTJ. I've worked with a few. Immature INTJs have a very hard time perceiving value in anything but a contest of idea fitness. This one is a sex-univsersal feature.

Happy Puppy: My wife used to clam up and pout. But I refused to leave her alone until she expressed herself. It made things a lot better when she trusted me enough to tell me how she felt. I would always be patient. Sometimes it took her a day or a week to figure out how to say how she felt. It was important for me to hear.

Typical immature male INTJ features I have worked with include stealing ideas on the basis of 'understanding them better', challenging everyone to debate duels, constantly claiming philosophical superiority in a stupid world, and obsessing over immature archetype media.

The immature female INTJs I have worked with tend to label and attack non-logical thinkers through formal channels, withdraw from and show disdain for non-logical group work, consistently ignore input from colleagues judged inferior, and show an obsessive worship of ESTJ co-workers.

Its this latter tendencies I listed for male and female INTJs where F types can get a latch on how isolated the F of an immature INTJ can be. As they grow and gain access to their F, they can grow to become really great people.

I think one of the reasons INTJ maless often get a bad wrap is that their young personality is very nerdy or otherwise quiet, their young adult model is very angry, and their adult personality is never perceived by most people as it emerges after schooling is done. The greatest danger for an INTJ is between the ages of 12 and 25. Unfortunately, that's when things in life are the most chaotic and most people get the vast majority of their broad social exposure.

Many ES types, on the contrary, grow up early in a world that likes them. They have an easier time from age 12 to 25. But then they seem to stagnate until they enter a crisis at mid life.

My wife had her trouble when she was younger. But I grabbed her as she was coming out of it. She's amazing and great. She navigates her INTJ personality very healthily, and I'm the better for her being in my life.