[ENFP] ENFP+INTJ=Disasterous Combo o' love

[SillySapienne]

I feel nekkid.

:/

 

[Zarathustra]

That's really all there is to it. We meet people, maybe make a good connection, maybe not. Maybe the connection endures, maybe not.

The best bet for an INTJ is to keep on trying and practicing. If she was initially fascinated, but now isn't, that's her problem, not yours. Your only concern is whether there's still a connection. If so, keep on dating and exploring. If not, stop, and find someone else.

There's a lot of advice on how to make things work out with someone, but it would behoove INTJs to remember that such advice is aimed at people who are already to some degree committed to each other. When the relationship is just starting, there's really no advice other than "get to know the other person better."

Disagree.

There's an entire industry devoted to giving the latter type of advice (as well as the former).

I think almost everyone who writes about relationships on this forum could benefit from discovering it.

 

[SillySapienne]

All new people and things, eh, not all, but most, due to novelty, are exciting.

However, the more complex and intriguing a person is, I assure you, the more you'll reel us ENFPs in.

 

[uumlau]

Appreciate the support uumlau, but I am definitely not trusting.

In my book, someone is not trustworthy until proven otherwise.

I think most INTJs would agree with this...

Reread my post. There's some intentional irony in there, of the "trust, but verify" variety. My main point is that I want to be able to trust, and it sucks that most people will just break it.

Le Sigh....

Ms. Sapienne, I think you have very little to worry about.

I find it telling that you now admit that it wasn't a "joke." It says a lot about you. (Good things, even though I was willing to take you at your word and assume that you intended it to be a joke.) If you can realize that you shouldn't hide behind your "craziness" in order to get away with rude (if not abusive) behavior, then you have a good chance of not messing up again, and keeping that which you treasure.

 

[Zarathustra]

He's been nothing but compassionate, open, trust-worthy, and trusting towards me, and I slapped him across the face, no, the heart, the soul, because I fucking have a whole bag load of issues that are not his fault, or problem, really.

Actually, they are my problem. But I'm willing to work through them.

And, I apologize how I mischaracterized Z.

He had every right to be mad/disappointed/angry/let down by me.

I acted like a c*nt.

And, I'm sorry.

It's ok. I love you.

 

[SillySapienne]

Wait, wait!!!

I have met and "dated" infinitely intriguing and complex men, but they just weren't my cup of tea.

So, if she doesn't find you right for her, that's just her personal preference/stance/feeling not by any means an affront to your character.

Hahaha, unless you're a creepy asshole.

Which, by the way, you don't seem like, at all.

In fact, from the very few posts you've written I can feel your kindness.

Maybe you are too introverted for her, or conversely she's too extroverted for you?!!??

Just a thought.

 

[uumlau]

Disagree.

There's an entire industry devoted to giving the latter type of advice (as well as the former).

I think almost everyone who writes about relationships on this forum could benefit from discovering it.

W/r to the latter type of advice, most of it is useless to INTJs, and the pieces of it that do be summed up as, "Get off your duff and go meet people. Lots of people. Socialize. You'll eventually meet someone you really like." Most INTJs, I've noticed, really don't like this advice, but there's really no way around it.

 

[SillySapienne]

Actually, they are my problem. But I'm willing to work through them.

:blushing:

Sometimes, I don't think I'm worthy of your love and understanding <--- please take brief note of this and then erase it from your memory for it is incredibly embarrassing.

I think it's funny that since I've met you, I've ceased reading romance novels. :O

It's ok. I love you.

Harumph, I wish I were with you, right now.

To be cloaked in the comfort of your arms....

:blushing:

I love you.

Ms. Sapienne, I think you have very little to worry about.

I find it telling that you now admit that it wasn't a "joke." It says a lot about you. (Good things, even though I was willing to take you at your word and assume that you intended it to be a joke.) If you can realize that you shouldn't hide behind your "craziness" in order to get away with rude (if not abusive) behavior, then you have a good chance of not messing up again, and keeping that which you treasure.

You kinda remind me of someone I know and love.

You're all kinds of awesome!!!

Thank you.

 

[Zarathustra]

W/r to the latter type of advice, most of it is useless to INTJs, and the pieces of it that do be summed up as, "Get off your duff and go meet people. Lots of people. Socialize. You'll eventually meet someone you really like." Most INTJs, I've noticed, really don't like this advice, but there's really no way around it.

I agree, to an extent. A lot of the advice is simply this.

But there's also good advice, like:

- learning to truly understand and be completely honest with yourself about who you are, what you want, and your inner and deepest motivations
- learning to truly understand and accept human nature, both male and female, masculine and feminine (particularly via evolutionary psychology)
- learning your life's deepest purpose and how to always remain sourced in that purpose

And these are just a few off the top of my head.

EDIT: Just reread your post, uumlau, and realized you weren't describing "that type" of advice as a negative. Indeed it is not. Just perhaps not as useful to INTJs if not also packaged with the other lessons I described above, since our kind tend to feel just fine staying within their cave.

 

[Zarathustra]

You kinda remind me of someone I know and love.

You're all kinds of awesome!!!

Thank you.

I think he almost doesn't even sound like an INTJ (but that would be misguided, cuz it's prolly just a sign that he's a mature, well-balanced one).

 

[SillySapienne]

I think he almost doesn't even sound like an INTJ (but that would be misguided, cuz it's prolly just a sign that he's a mature, well-balanced one).

Exactly!!!

 

[Zarathustra]

Alright, that's enough posting from me. I've got to wake up in four hours to start a 12-hour day. Good night, everybody.

 

[uumlau]

You kinda remind me of someone I know and love.

You're all kinds of awesome!!!

Thank you.

Fortunately, that someone appears to be aware of how lucky he is. And, since he and I are both INTJs, we were already aware of how awesome we are, thanks. No need to remind us.

I agree, to an extent. A lot of the advice is simply this.

But there's also good advice, like:

- learning to truly understand and be completely honest with yourself about who you are, what you want, and your inner and deepest motivations
- learning to truly understand and accept human nature, both male and female, masculine and feminine (particularly via evolutionary psychology)
- learning your life's deepest purpose and how to always remain sourced in that purpose

And these are just a few off the top of my head.

EDIT: Just reread your post, uumlau, and realized you weren't describing "that type" of advice as a negative. Indeed it is not. Just perhaps not as useful to INTJs if not also packaged with the other lessons I described above, since our kind tend to feel just fine staying within their cave.

Yeah, I'd say the other advice is a bit more useful once an INTJ has developed Fi more. The initial advice of "go and meet people" is geared toward training Ni to deal with people better, and eventually finding self-understanding with Fi.

I think he almost doesn't even sound like an INTJ (but that would be misguided, cuz it's prolly just a sign that he's a mature, well-balanced one).

Hehehehe. There's a post or two on this forum that pretty much prove my INTJ-ness. Mostly, I seem to have a lot more Fi going on than most INTJs. The main thing is that the problems I have had are typical of INTJs, not INTPs, or INFPs, or INFJs or ISTPs.

Thanks for the vote in favor of maturity and well-balanced-ness.

 

[Kalach]

You sounded all good until you told her that she continues to intrigue you...

Say whut?

We should be slapping the biatches around, not telling them we like them?


The only difficulty with being too open-ended with ENFPs is they will go all NP on that shit and fracture their brains. A whole relationship with you will happen in their heads and you'll never see it. One must from time to time instantiate so that they can too.

 

[Zarathustra]

Yeah, I'd say the other advice is a bit more useful once an INTJ has developed Fi more. The initial advice of "go and meet people" is geared toward training Ni to deal with people better, and eventually finding self-understanding with Fi.

I actually think INTJs need to learn how to put Ni on the back burner a bit when dealing with people, and learn to "upshift" to Te. Which, coincidentally, is the same as achieving I/E balance.

Hehehehe. There's a post or two on this forum that pretty much prove my INTJ-ness. Mostly, I seem to have a lot more Fi going on than most INTJs. The main thing is that the problems I have had are typical of INTJs, not INTPs, or INFPs, or INFJs or ISTPs.

Thanks for the vote in favor of maturity and well-balanced-ness.

Oh, I'm not saying you're not an INTJ. Based on your other posts, I definitely think you are. It's just, as you said, your Fi seems well-developed, which is, again coincidentally, the primary sign of a mature INTJ.

 

[simulatedworld]

I actually think INTJs need to learn how to put Ni on the back burner a bit when dealing with people, and learn to "upshift" to Te. Which, coincidentally, is the same as achieving I/E balance.

Exactly right.

 

[Zarathustra]

Say whut?

We should be slapping the biatches around, not telling them we like them?


The only difficulty with being too open-ended with ENFPs is they will go all NP on that shit and fracture their brains. A whole relationship with you will happen in their heads and you'll never see it. One must from time to time instantiate so that they can too.

Yeah, from time to time.

But that time is not when she's started losing interest in you and you're trying to re-spark it...

EDIT: By "Yeah, from time to time", I was not referring to whether we should be "slapping the biatches around"... just in case there was any confusion...

 

[SillySapienne]

We'll see what happens here, TheScientist. There really isn't any doubt that she was genuinely interested and that there was tremendous physical attraction. Even on Sunday (yes, two days ago...) it was there. It's all very puzzling to me (as it seems things were with your ENFP). I hope that she'll at least tell me her feelings have changed, even if she doesn't tell me why. She really is a remarkable woman.

I really want you guys to work out, and it is a quasi-good sign that she asked you when you'd get back from your trip!

Oh, and there's intense physical attraction, there?!?!?

Physical attraction plus INTJ/ENFP inherent attraction honestly leads to a match made in heaven.

 

[SillySapienne]

Say whut?

We should be slapping the biatches around, not telling them we like them?

Reading this coupled with looking at your avatar was truly a priceless moment, for me.

Thank you.

 

[uumlau]

I actually think INTJs need to learn how to put Ni on the back burner a bit when dealing with people, and learn to "upshift" to Te. Which, coincidentally, is the same as achieving I/E balance.

Interesting point. I tend to take Te for granted, so I wasn't thinking in terms of becoming less introverted with it. With respect to a work environment, it is great for learning how to cooperate with others in an objective fashion. But for socializing? Fuggedaboutit. Te keeps on trying to solve other people's problems, which is exactly the wrong approach when your friend just needs someone to listen for a while.

Hence my recommending using Ni while socializing (i.e., while behaving "E") to spot the social patterns: the INTJ's understanding thus achieved is rather unusual, but still ultimately useful. It will also tend to awaken Fe (or teach Te to "act Fe" ... I'm not sure which it is, yet), making social encounters more endurable. Where Ni becomes problematic is its inherent bias against further exposure to social elements: the INTJ has to force oneself past this comfort zone barrier. Difficult, but doable, in my experience.