[ENFP] ENFP+INTJ=Disasterous Combo o' love

[sculpting]

This, for shizzle. However, I think this ability also has something to do with Ni.

I think you speak the truth.

So I went to lunch today with my ENTP sidekick. We were chatting about INTJs, cause you know, they are just cool and stuff and sometimes come up as topics of conversation.

So both pondered the nature of Ni with our Ne sparkly brains.

She described how once she experienced Ni-she was sitting in a park, depressed, sad, shadow INTJ-like and looking at a row of houses in a long line next to a park. Suddenly the houses seemed to be on fire. She said it was amazing.

I explained how when I was cheating with Fe, I could sometimes get a taste of Ni. It made trees become very strange things-become broccoli like. Also it made the marble tile on a counter become one with a picture of the background radiation of the universe, that I once saw. Things seemed to "be" other things. Not "be like" but "be".

This sounds fucking stupid huh? However we both sat there in states of awe, recalling these experiences. Stunned, silent awe, which is saying something as we dont typically shut up.

I looked at her and I said, "Imagine being able to do that to all of reality." I dont even understand what that means.

 

[SillySapienne]

Appalling.

Hahahaha, I knew that looked wrong.

Wait, aren't we getting really off topic, here?



Intjs...

 

[uumlau]

I think you speak the truth.

So I went to lunch today with my ENTP sidekick. We were chatting about INTJs, cause you know, they are just cool and stuff and sometimes come up as topics of conversation.

So both pondered the nature of Ni with our Ne sparkly brains.

She described how once she experienced Ni-she was sitting in a park, depressed, sad, shadow INTJ-like and looking at a row of houses in a long line next to a park. Suddenly the houses seemed to be on fire. She said it was amazing.

I explained how when I was cheating with Fe, I could sometimes get a taste of Ni. It made trees become very strange things-become broccoli like. Also it made the marble tile on a counter become one with a picture of the background radiation of the universe, that I once saw. Things seemed to "be" other things. Not "be like" but "be".

This sounds fucking stupid huh? However we both sat there in states of awe, recalling these experiences. Stunned, silent awe, which is saying something as we dont typically shut up.

I looked at her and I said, "Imagine being able to do that to all of reality." I dont even understand what that means.

That's not too far off, really. For me, Ni is the ability to take two things that have nothing to do with each other, except for similar relationships within the various "pieces" of each thing, and draw useful analogies. Tree as broccoli is one such. On one level, it's a useless comparison: they aren't the same thing at all in a lot of ways. On another, it's very useful, e.g., "Oh, yeah, it would be a lot easier to use broccoli for my art project than paper mache trees!" At the artistic level, the broccoli "system" is very similar to the tree "system."

 

[SillySapienne]

Happy puppy,

But, but, but...

I cannot fathom a world o' things sans analogies and metaphors!!!

A drop

A puddle

A pool

A lake

An ocean.

H20, water is water.

I get it.

But all of its manifestations, and functions.

I'm drinking Coke Zero, water with myriad potentially carcinogenic chemicals.

Wait, I forgot my point.

 

[sculpting]

That's not too far off, really. For me, Ni is the ability to take two things that have nothing to do with each other, except for similar relationships within the various "pieces" of each thing, and draw useful analogies. Tree as broccoli is one such. On one level, it's a useless comparison: they aren't the same thing at all in a lot of ways. On another, it's very useful, e.g., "Oh, yeah, it would be a lot easier to use broccoli for my art project than paper mache trees!" At the artistic level, the broccoli "system" is very similar to the tree "system."

haha, I do recall thinking, hmmm.. this is interesting. so what do I do with this information? I think it was exceptionally simplistic compared to what you guys do honestly.

(Sapienne, it's okay you can derail our thread anyday. Those moms need poodles, not kids)

 

[Poki]

Are sure this isnt how you would apply Se to the Ti logical connections? Ie a practical application of the idea and how to merge the two different concepts to produce something productive?





Ti, Se, Ni..... Hmmm... Poki what are you doing to reality? God, I wish I fucking understood Ni better...I am so annoyed. Poki you are getting at something important here, but I am too slow to understand it. Damnit.

You see the logical reality in front of you-Se, but then can see different ways to remodel/recreate-Ni it at the same time to rebuild into something productive and logical???

(I also carry around rocks-typically in my pockets though)

I guess Ni is like a memory bank of ideas and concepts, so what you see above with Ne spidering out, I store concepts in my head that Se and Ti have tore apart. Everything that onemoretime said I already knew, but instead of going from concept to concept. Its like an instant cross-referencing of concepts as I understand them into reality and vice-versa. When people stay high level in regard to questions like the above posts I dont have enough to tear apart, conceptualize, and cross-reference with reality. I wish I knew how my brain worked, its pretty much either something pops up or it doesnt. I have a hard time trusting it as their is no rhyme or reason to my methodology.

 

[Metamorphosis]

That's not too far off, really. For me, Ni is the ability to take two things that have nothing to do with each other, except for similar relationships within the various "pieces" of each thing, and draw useful analogies. Tree as broccoli is one such. On one level, it's a useless comparison: they aren't the same thing at all in a lot of ways. On another, it's very useful, e.g., "Oh, yeah, it would be a lot easier to use broccoli for my art project than paper mache trees!" At the artistic level, the broccoli "system" is very similar to the tree "system."

It's our blessing and our curse. There is a fine line between discovering connections and concocting them. Between having a deeper understanding of reality and losing touch with it.

 

[sculpting]

Happy puppy,

But, but, but...

I cannot fathom a world o' things sans analogies and metaphors!!!

A drop

A puddle

A pool

A lake

An ocean.

H20, water is water.

I get it.

But all of its manifestations, and functions.

I'm drinking Coke Zero, water with myriad potentially carcinogenic chemicals.

Wait, I forgot my point.

EXACTLY!!!! Ne keeps hopping from item to item to item, endlessly connecting.

I swim, dance, splash, play

water weaves
cloth dances

candles burn
endless ether

flashing shining whole within without,

dancing endlessly onwards, the ideas/words are like rain or water running down the side of a cliff, hitting rocks, splashing up into a myriad of endless sprinkles, to forge ahead anew to connect to new ideas. Without Ti, Fi blends all types of beautiful things into a merge sense of wholeness.

I can connect ANYTHING, then analyze with te. At any one point I will have about ten different threads here that I would like to pull together into new ideas, new combinations. The other day I connected ENFP learning with a math technique-that less than 1% of the population understands, (alas Ne isnt always practical)

My cheated tiny, flawed Ni seemed very different. It never left the object.

Okay, this is really stupid, but when cheating with Fe, I made up a story for my toddler. It was about a beautiful doe-deer at a dance dressed in a ball gown. Except the story never went anywhere because I just kept adding details to the gown and the deer. Everytime I looked at the deer in my mind, I could see more details, more things to elaborate on. Her eyes, her nose, her ears, each individual hair, her dress. However SHE-the object in question-was the entire point. I had no interest is thinking of anything but that particular object-her. Same thing with the trees. Normally I look at a tree and follow all the branches to the ends of the tips, then see all of them connecting like a giant web. I love patterns for this reason as well.

(I LOVE WAVES. endlessly changing, always moving, always connecting.I want to melt into the waves)

But Ni trees-nope the tree itself is the center point. It was everything. Everytime I tried to turn away I was pulled back towards the tree.

Anyways, all cheated, simplistic and highly suspect, but enough to show how Ni could be some fascinating stuff and is very different from the Ne that defines us.

 

[uumlau]

It's our blessing and our curse. There is a fine line between discovering connections and concocting them. Between having a deeper understanding of reality and losing touch with it.

That's the purpose of Te for the INTJ. The Ni keeps on telling us "this is like that", for all sorts of unrelated things. Te kicks in and says, "No it isn't." Or Te kicks in and say, "Oh, wait, there might be something to it. *scribble scribble think think* Oh, yeah, wow, that works!" When I'm going "all out INTJ" it's a continuous dialogue, with Ni throwing out all sorts of understandings, some of them extremely sophisticated, and Te keeps it grounded in the real world.

This is also why we like the puns: "this word sounds like that word." Te rejects it as false, but Fi notes that it's really funny if you say it. Then we say the absurd pun statement and see if anyone notices.

It's also how we can apply one level of understanding to something completely unrelated. For instance, in dancing, if I am holding both of my partner's hands, it can act either like a fermion or a boson. In particular a left-to-left, right-to-right connection is a fermion. Let's say the hold is in the +1/2 state, left over right. Turning her to the left (counterclockwise one rotation), the state is now -1/2, right over left. Alternatively, it's possible to turn her to the right one full turn, and have a +3/2 state (awkward, but doable). The mathematical rule is that each "X" crossing in the connection counts as 1/2 spin.

 

[sculpting]

I guess Ni is like a memory bank of ideas and concepts, so what you see above with Ne spidering out, I store concepts in my head that Se and Ti have tore apart. Everything that onemoretime said I already knew, but instead of going from concept to concept. Its like an instant cross-referencing of concepts as I understand them into reality and vice-versa. When people stay high level in regard to questions like the above posts I dont have enough to tear apart, conceptualize, and cross-reference with reality. I wish I knew how my brain worked, its pretty much either something pops up or it doesnt. I have a hard time trusting it as their is no rhyme or reason to my methodology.

I remember this about ISTPs and tert Ni-it is very visceral and sort of pops up out of the blue. I think the ISFPs-Fi, Se, Ni have the same thing happen. It's interesting to read charles Bukowski's poetry as you can see the poems cadence-Se, Se, Se, Fi, Se, Se, then this dramatic Ni moment, then back to Se, Se again. I see this a lot with your posts-you are trying to take these really abstract things and restate concretely, but dont have the right words.


I could see this in my Ex ISTP and his art. He was as practical a human being as you can possibly be, yet he would draw really odd things. It was like Ni forces it ways up? I dunno?? meh, I am just making up stuff I am afraid, but keep posting Poki as I like trying to understand how you see these things.

 

[Metamorphosis]

That's the purpose of Te for the INTJ. The Ni keeps on telling us "this is like that", for all sorts of unrelated things. Te kicks in and says, "No it isn't." Or Te kicks in and say, "Oh, wait, there might be something to it. *scribble scribble think think* Oh, yeah, wow, that works!" When I'm going "all out INTJ" it's a continuous dialogue, with Ni throwing out all sorts of understandings, some of them extremely sophisticated, and Te keeps it grounded in the real world.

Yes, as long as Te keeps up in development. Otherwise you get the cliche INTJs with megalomania and overactive imagination. See INTJforum.

 

[uumlau]

haha, I do recall thinking, hmmm.. this is interesting. so what do I do with this information? I think it was exceptionally simplistic compared to what you guys do honestly.

You were correct in using Fe to invoke it. It is also invoked using Te.

Overall, I think iNtuitives are just intuitive, no i/e attached. It's the attitude of our judging functions that direct it. When I pull out Fi, it is definitely using Ne. I'll write music out of nothing. It will just want to go all over the place. I end up having to use Te to redirect and edit it, turning it into something that succinctly conveys the core essence of the Fi/Ne expression.

I'm betting that if you think about it, you use Ni with your Te, and usually not Si, in spite of the official MBTI ordering. (In the meantime, I'll put sugar, not Ni, in my Te.)

 

[Poki]

I remember this about ISTPs and tert Ni-it is very visceral and sort of pops up out of the blue. I think the ISFPs-Fi, Se, Ni have the same thing happen. It's interesting to read charles Bukowski's poetry as you can see the poems cadence-Se, Se, Se, Fi, Se, Se, then this dramatic Ni moment, then back to Se, Se again. I see this a lot with your posts-you are trying to take these really abstract things and restate concretely, but dont have the right words.


I could see this in my Ex ISTP and his art. He was as practical a human being as you can possibly be, yet he would draw really odd things. It was like Ni forces it ways up? I dunno?? meh, I am just making up stuff I am afraid, but keep posting Poki as I like trying to understand how you see these things.

Lol, it gets pretty bad and me and my wife have been together for so long she knows exactly where and why I go somewhere. Last night I heard musical 3 beats on the TV and I started singing "Jeramiah was a bullfrog". Have been playing alot with Ni recently.

edit: Ti is failing me so I am shifting to a Se-Ni combination.

 

[Valiant]

I tend to get along famously with ENFPs, but i'm not particularly attracted to them.
Out of pure necessity. I love doing things, but not schfifty-five things at once
The "natural drama" mentioned earlier is also a major deal-breaker in most young ENFP women.
I'm only 22, so this might and might not change as both them and I mature.
But it's kinda like I have no problems being a perfect boyfriend. None at all.
I can even tolerate a lot of shit, like I have with a bunch of ExxP girls i've dated, up to a certain point.
But it's like there is always, and now I do mean always, a whole lot of drama and weird mind games.

It's like i'm not at all complicated. I know exactly what I want, how, when, why and where.
Most young/immature ENFPs don't seem to know their direction, and spend all their time running all over the place doing God knows what.
Young/immature INTJs tend to read a lot, do nerdy stuff, work, indulge in knowledge, think about stuff and at least I have done a loooooot of introspection.

I've met mature ENFPs in real life and i've talked to some on here... Really nice individuals.
It's just that those i've met in real life tend to be in their forties or fifties.
Kinda sucks, because it would be fun to try out a romance with a psychologically mature ENFP.
It's kinda sad that most ENFPs tend to be so fickle and almost bipolar-like fast paced.

I know INTJs sure are not without flaws. Most self-described INTJs on here and other places don't seem like very balanced or nice people. Hell, not even competent, intelligent or knowledgeable.
To my understanding, immature/underdeveloped INTJs are just as common as immature/underdeveloped ENFPs.
Two natural trouble types.

I bet many grow out of it until they're 30 or so.
I just haven't seen much of it.

 

[sculpting]

This is also why we like the puns: "this word sounds like that word." Te rejects it as false, but Fi notes that it's really funny if you say it. Then we say the absurd pun statement and see if anyone notices.

Dude that's awesome! You guys have your Fi silly switch all wired backwards, but maybe that's why we like you. We do the same thing with NeFi. Ne makes crazy ass connections, that really arent in anyway legit, but it is hysterical to say them-I guess because of Fi. I think that's why we give people pet names. Everyone gets a list of Ne connected pet names, each with a funny Ne connection in my mind, every time evoking silly laugter.

I'm betting that if you think about it, you use Ni with your Te, and usually not Si, in spite of the official MBTI ordering. (In the meantime, I'll put sugar, not Ni, in my Te.)

Na, I have to stick with Si for me-it makes too much sense. Every now and then I will get an Ni-like sense but Si "feels" very, very correct.

I bet many grow out of it until they're 30 or so.
I just haven't seen much of it.

I'm 33. My friend at work is 36. We both use a significant amount of Te, so can be very serious, but have distinct silly switches and are prone to emo sometimes. Emo is how ENFPs learn I think.

 

[SillySapienne]

Young ENFPs do plenty of reading, introspecting, geeky/nerdy stuff, soaking in, exploring and integrating new information, i.e. learning, getting into esoteric shit, and other things typically attributed to being a T, or, more specifically, an INT.

But more than that, your average ENFP is going to be a "soul searcher" from a very young age, she will ask herself who she is, and constantly find herself and attempt to truly understand herself.

Self-awareness is something that Fi forces upon yourself, so even though we are experimental stimulus whores, within the whirl of excitement there is the Fi center/core/anchor/Self constantly there keeping us in check.

 

[Thalassa]

Dude that's awesome! You guys have your Fi silly switch all wired backwards, but maybe that's why we like you. We do the same thing with NeFi. Ne makes crazy ass connections, that really arent in anyway legit, but it is hysterical to say them-I guess because of Fi. I think that's why we give people pet names. Everyone gets a list of Ne connected pet names, each with a funny Ne connection in my mind, every time evoking silly laugter.

I make up songs about my cats, my nephew, or whatever I happen to be doing at the moment and sing them to people (or just to my cats)

 

[Thalassa]

Young ENFPs do plenty of reading, introspecting, geeky/nerdy stuff, soaking in, exploring and integrating new information, i.e. learning, getting into esoteric shit, and other things typically attributed to being a T, or, more specifically, an INT.

But more than that, your average ENFP is going to be a "soul searcher" from a very young age, she will ask herself who she is, and constantly find herself and attempt to truly understand herself.

Self-awareness is something that Fi forces upon yourself, so even though we are experimental stimulus whores, within the whirl of excitement there is the Fi center/core/anchor/Self constantly there keeping us in check.

Exactly.

 

[SillySapienne]

Young ENFPs do plenty of reading, introspecting, geeky/nerdy stuff, soaking in, exploring and integrating new information, i.e. learning, getting into esoteric shit, and other things typically attributed to being a T, or, more specifically, an INT.

But more than that, your average ENFP is going to be a "soul searcher" from a very young age, she will ask herself who she is, and constantly find herself and attempt to truly understand herself.

Self-awareness is something that Fi forces upon yourself, so even though we are experimental stimulus whores, within the whirl of excitement there is the Fi center/core/anchor/Self constantly there keeping us in check.

 

[Valiant]

What I meant is that it's incredibly hard to trust an ENFP.
ENFPs are also good at geeky things, I know. That's kind of why we'd be prone to like ENFPs, I think.