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[ENFP] ENFP+INTJ=Disasterous Combo o' love

evilrobot

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Which is why you complement it with mutual Te commitment and intellectual interaction. Dont be a quitter! ENFPs are flighty and absent minded, but you just need to bluntly remind them you are there and we will hold onto you as our foundation and drag you out into the world-just a bit.


Tremendous patience on the INTJ’s part is often essential, that’s a given.

*

Another thing to consider is that ENFPs want to be everyone’s best friend. This can be a plus if it gives the INTJ the requisite private time, but a negative if the ENFP constantly tries to drag the INTJ along to parties and social scenes.
 

Thalassa

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^ I wonder if this is not the merciless inferior.

The total connection comes when both partners are up-ended. They've worked their way down through the functions, the IXTJ engaging Fi, the EXFP engaging Te, and then what? The inferior. If it were INTJ, he'd activate Se; but if it were ISTJ, he'd activate Ne, and speak directly to the ENFP's dominant function, and the connection is complete... for when the ISTJ takes the role of the Ne user, the ENFP can take the role of the Si user. The whole person is engaged. The meaning (found in Ne) of all that has been done (found in Si) is shared.

Whereas the INTJ would say, let's go dancing.

Um, dude, if you're trying to say ISTJ would be a better match, I think I'm gonna have to laugh right about now.

:laugh:


Who said ENFPs don't like to dance?
 

Kalach

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Always passionately seeking meaning, eventually the ENFP looks to the one realm she could so often do without seeing into... *drumroll* *picture goes hazy*

...the PAST!!!


*zish boom*


It becomes more frequent and competent a search as the ENFP ages. And the INTJ buys a sports car.
 

Kalach

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ps. the reason ENFPs don't believe things like that ^^^: because...

...it's Ni.


Technically it's Ni focused by Te. But still, it's not a real story (Si) of real people (Si) with real details (Si) they can start seeing (Ne) the meaning (Ne) of.

People underestimate just how ISTJ-stubborn ENFPs can be. And they always underestimate the lack of attachment INTJs have to the past.
 

Thalassa

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ps. the reason ENFPs don't believe things like that ^^^: because...

...it's Ni.


Technically it's Ni focused by Te. But still, it's not a real story (Si) of real people (Si) with real details (Si) they can start seeing (Ne) the meaning (Ne) of.

People underestimate just how ISTJ-stubborn ENFPs can be. And they always underestimate the lack of attachment INTJs have to the past.

I admit to being STJ stubborn, and occasionally - when pressed - downright steam roller.

The same problem would occur with Se dom/aux, Ni tert/inf. SPs, though, and I like them too.

So I'm screwed either way. I don't even consider SJs as an option for romance.

Besides, I think relying on function order to this insane degree is more than a bit silly.
 

SillySapienne

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All I’m gonna say is that ENFPs take a long time for any type to recover from. And INTJs, more than most, are simply not wired to handle them.
Recover from?!!?

Yeahno, as if we're some kind of devastating tornado... hold on to your humble abodes, guys!

crazytornado.jpg
 

SillySapienne

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Tremendous patience on the INTJ’s part is often essential, that’s a given.

*

Another thing to consider is that ENFPs want to be everyone’s best friend. This can be a plus if it gives the INTJ the requisite private time, but a negative if the ENFP constantly tries to drag the INTJ along to parties and social scenes.

1.) Any, or at least most romantic relationships require both parties to exercise a buttload of patience, period.

2.) ENFPs do not want to be everybody's best friend, rather, we enjoy truly connecting with others, strangers and lovers alike, and it is this spontaneous yet continuous connection, free of any pretense or pretext, for which we strive.

3.) The mere thought of dragging anyone to any event against their will or wishes leaves a bitter taste in my soul.

4.) We are fine going to parties and these "social scenes" (wait, what the fuck is a social scene, and do we really take part in these things?!?), ALONE, or with a person who actually wants to go.

5.) In general, I think you will find that most, or at least many ENFPs, are actually quite comfortable being alone, or in the company of +1, (in fact, many of us have expressed our preference of one-on-one contact/communication).

6.) As popular, and people-loving we might be, we are not these social butterflies that flit and flutter here, there, and everywhere, at least not usually. :p
 

evilrobot

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ps. the reason ENFPs don't believe things like that ^^^: because...

...it's Ni.


Technically it's Ni focused by Te. But still, it's not a real story (Si) of real people (Si) with real details (Si) they can start seeing (Ne) the meaning (Ne) of.

People underestimate just how ISTJ-stubborn ENFPs can be. And they always underestimate the lack of attachment INTJs have to the past.


You probably think INTJ + ESFP is a good match, too.

If so, you are gravely mistaken, my friend. That’s even worse than ENFP + ISTJ. To ESPs, who dominate our culture, it’s all about what’s right in front of them at the moment; they usually have the attention span of houseflies. From the INTJ point of view, ESFPs are the bimbos of the mbti, and ENFPs are the femme fatales. ENFPs are enchanting and seductive, but deadly. ESFPs, on the other hand, become shallow, boring pains in the asses very quickly.

From the ESFP point of view, however, the INTJ is the bore, because a person sitting still for more than five seconds and having mental wanderings doesn’t compute to ESFPs. There’s no discussion of ideas with ESFPs. I don’t mean to stereotype, but frankly, I’ve seen few if any exceptions. I’d much rather be with someone my own type, if given a choice between that and a complete opposite. Typology books that encourage opposite matches are leading people far astray, if you ask me.


1.) Any, or at least most romantic relationships require both parties to exercise a buttload of patience, period.

2.) ENFPs do not want to be everybody's best friend, rather, we enjoy truly connecting with others, strangers and lovers alike, and it is this spontaneous yet continuous connection, free of any pretense or pretext, for which we strive.

3.) The mere thought of dragging anyone to any event against their will or wishes leaves a bitter taste in my soul.

4.) We are fine going to parties and these "social scenes" (wait, what the fuck is a social scene, and do we really take part in these things?!?), ALONE, or with a person who actually wants to go.

5.) In general, I think you will find that most, or at least many ENFPs, are actually quite comfortable being alone, or in the company of +1, (in fact, many of us have expressed our preference of one-on-one contact/communication).

6.) As popular, and people-loving we might be, we are not these social butterflies that flit and flutter here, there, and everywhere, at least not usually. :p

Thanks for setting me straight about all that, cupcake. I always enjoy a little mind-expansion.
 

Waffle

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After much back reading I will continue my search for nice INTJs (It seems there are quite a few in my thread!), and I just had the misfortune of stumbling across the type's ... less courteous members.
I have to agree that the J function has scared me away from any type. I don't much liked to be judge or do anything wrong. I think it's a personal flaw, and probably common amongst ENFPs to be scared of judgment or displeasing anyone (But that's a thread for another day), and other than that you INTJs have given me a lot to think about and a whole new look on things (All you ENFPs too).
 

Waffle

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1.) Any, or at least most romantic relationships require both parties to exercise a buttload of patience, period.

2.) ENFPs do not want to be everybody's best friend, rather, we enjoy truly connecting with others, strangers and lovers alike, and it is this spontaneous yet continuous connection, free of any pretense or pretext, for which we strive.

3.) The mere thought of dragging anyone to any event against their will or wishes leaves a bitter taste in my soul.

4.) We are fine going to parties and these "social scenes" (wait, what the fuck is a social scene, and do we really take part in these things?!?), ALONE, or with a person who actually wants to go.

5.) In general, I think you will find that most, or at least many ENFPs, are actually quite comfortable being alone, or in the company of +1, (in fact, many of us have expressed our preference of one-on-one contact/communication).

6.) As popular, and people-loving we might be, we are not these social butterflies that flit and flutter here, there, and everywhere, at least not usually. :p

So incredibly true.
I'm a "quieter" ENFP. Large groups of people put me so incredibly on edge. One-on-one makes it easy to get to know everyone and be there when they need you.
 

Kalach

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I admit to being STJ stubborn, and occasionally - when pressed - downright steam roller.

Forgive moi, but the stubborn part rests in the insistence of Ne, with a concomitant insistence on Si. Which is to say, dreams and wonders do not appear unless they're understandably prompted by immediate events. Meaning, deep in your hearts y'all ENFPs are as earth-bound as any ISTJ.

INTJs have a similar problem, but it's not that we're stubbornly connected to the past. No, INTJs stubbornly insist nothing is real unless it's happening right here right now.

Besides, I think relying on function order to this insane degree is more than a bit silly.

If I may, once again, this is an Ne/Si philosophy... if I don't know details of real people, it can't have real meaning. Ask an ISTJ, get a similar, though far less liberal, assessment of meaning.


I don't think I've actually came out and said ISTJ and ENFP is a better match. I did say there exists a direct route to involvement of the whole person if one's an ISTJ and the other's an ENFP. I neglected to observe that in as much as for this to be conscious, it needs conscious involvement of the inferior, and thus... doesn't happen often. It comes at the end of a process and even then is fleeting. Golden moments, if you will. Events the couple remembers and it keeps them together through the every day unpleasantness of dealing with the alien they love.

The alternative is the brighter burn of the two N's together. And you know what they say about burning twice as bright? That they have big feet.


I think there is a real potential for INTJs to try getting ENFPs to cut back their intuition and act like bimbos. Also, a real potential for ENFPs to try getting INTJs to cut back their intuition and act like providers. (Or more likely, both will sulk, keeping these disappointments to themselves.)


But what if they know better? So that's why have this discussion has to be had... see the long range planning of it?
 

Thalassa

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Forgive moi, but the stubborn part rests in the insistence of Ne, with a concomitant insistence on Si. Which is to say, dreams and wonders do not appear unless they're understandably prompted by immediate events. Meaning, deep in your hearts y'all ENFPs are as earth-bound as any ISTJ.

INTJs have a similar problem, but it's not that we're stubbornly connected to the past. No, INTJs stubbornly insist nothing is real unless it's happening right here right now.



If I may, once again, this is an Ne/Si philosophy... if I don't know details of real people, it can't have real meaning. Ask an ISTJ, get a similar, though far less liberal, assessment of meaning.


I don't think I've actually came out and said ISTJ and ENFP is a better match. I did say there exists a direct route to involvement of the whole person if one's an ISTJ and the other's an ENFP. I neglected to observe that in as much as for this to be conscious, it needs conscious involvement of the inferior, and thus... doesn't happen often. It comes at the end of a process and even then is fleeting. Golden moments, if you will. Events the couple remembers and it keeps them together through the every day unpleasantness of dealing with the alien they love.

The alternative is the brighter burn of the two N's together. And you know what they say about burning twice as bright? That they have big feet.


I think there is a real potential for INTJs to try getting ENFPs to cut back their intuition and act like bimbos. Also, a real potential for ENFPs to try getting INTJs to cut back their intuition and act like providers. (Or more likely, both will sulk, keeping these disappointments to themselves.)


But what if they know better? So that's why have this discussion has to be had... see the long range planning of it?

No, really, dude. You're being silly. I'll tell you why - people's function strengths aren't like they are in the books. Getting too caught up in function order is just counterproductive, especially when talking about relationships of any kind. What you're calling "long range planning" is just something you're applying to imaginary people who don't really exist. I can't believe your Te is even letting you get away with this.

Unless you're joking.
 

Lady_X

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No, really, dude. You're being silly. I'll tell you why - people's function strengths aren't like they are in the books. Getting too caught up in function order is just counterproductive, especially when talking about relationships of any kind. What you're calling "long range planning" is just something you're applying to imaginary people who don't really exist. I can't believe your Te is even letting you get away with this.

Unless you're joking.

have to agree...that is not the least bit true for me...i gots no si...really really don't...it's quite sad.
 

Kalach

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You probably think INTJ + ESFP is a good match, too.

If so, you are gravely mistaken, my friend. That’s even worse than ENFP + ISTJ. To ESPs, who dominate our culture, it’s all about what’s right in front of them at the moment; they usually have the attention span of houseflies. From the INTJ point of view, ESFPs are the bimbos of the mbti, and ENFPs are the femme fatales. ENFPs are enchanting and seductive, but deadly. ESFPs, on the other hand, become shallow, boring pains in the asses very quickly.

From the ESFP point of view, however, the INTJ is the bore, because a person sitting still for more than five seconds and having mental wanderings doesn’t compute to ESFPs. There’s no discussion of ideas with ESFPs. I don’t mean to stereotype, but frankly, I’ve seen few if any exceptions. I’d much rather be with someone my own type, if given a choice between that and a complete opposite. Typology books that encourage opposite matches are leading people far astray, if you ask me.

Well, when you put it that way, it is kinda hard to know what an ESFP and INTJ would talk about.

I recall reading somewhere that the basic positive claim for opposite pairings is that as a partnership dealing with the outer world, they have all the bases covered. One carries the weight where the other can not.

That seems like a good idea.

In principle.
 

Kalach

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No, really, dude. You're being silly. I'll tell you why - people's function strengths aren't like they are in the books. Getting too caught up in function order is just counterproductive, especially when talking about relationships of any kind. What you're calling "long range planning" is just something you're applying to imaginary people who don't really exist. I can't believe your Te is even letting you get away with this.

Unless you're joking.

Imaginary people who don't exist is what Ni is all about.

The assertion that function strengths aren't as they say in books is crazy Si talk... namely, it's not real because I've seen it be not real. And yet... Si has seen only the past. And Ne doesn't go off anything other than what it's seen in the past and is seeing now.

Does introverted intuition have a parallel limitation? Probably something like Ni is really poor at extracting the meaning of past events for it doesn't count them as real anymore.
 

Thalassa

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Imaginary people who don't exist is what Ni is all about.

.

I'll keep that in mind when you start telling me that people are following you.

No really.
 

the state i am in

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Imaginary people who don't exist is what Ni is all about.

The assertion that function strengths aren't as they say in books is crazy Si talk... namely, it's not real because I've seen it be not real. And yet... Si has seen only the past. And Ne doesn't go off anything other than what it's seen in the past and is seeing now.

Does introverted intuition have a parallel limitation? Probably something like Ni is really poor at extracting the meaning of past events for it doesn't count them as real anymore.

all Ni does is extract the meaning from past events. that's why it misses shit that's right in front of it half the time. it's totally up to its own wheel of fortune colored glasses. if there are scratches or smudges we're fucked.

and methodology be damned, i think you point out potential pitfalls of the pairings. yet communicating with Ni-Ne dom gets you far, very very far. communicating is the most important aspect of any relationship to me. therefore, my first priority in a relationship is communication quality. understanding comes in all shapes and sizes, it's always a re-creation. and for desires lining up perfectly, it just doesn't exist. the king's harem grows old, tired, bitter, and bored. as does he. and i'm not going to quote mick jagger, in case you're wondering.

we can save the frankenstein typology for the future, when i get loved with pure Fi, when i get optimized (so optimistic!) by Ne, when i get implemented with Te, when i get pure fantastic focused challenging descriptive Ti truth (perfect mindmate! renewable resources!), and Fe consideration and awareness of my own emotional context, gestures, etc, when i get very zen Se in-the-body presence, awareness, seduction, etc, and Si never forgetting me. when i get someone capable of unstoppable extroverted force but who dreams of me and me alone. this is all lies. time to get back on the meds...
 
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