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  1. #841
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    (After some thought I realized another partner company has another INTJ in the same exact role. But this one uses a bit more Te and is a bit cocky. It makes me feel mixed feelings.

    He's kinda sexy, kinda funny, yet endlessly critical of my product, which by nature of fucked up Fi is actually an extension of me (like my furniture). After day three, I start having fantasies of tying him down in a chair, duct taping his mouth shut, and telling him how WONDERFUL all my products are. He only gets untied when he agrees how WONDERFUL all my products are. "You like my products dont you? Of course you do!!! Good INTJ!!!" While this sounds crazy, I actually like him, while a large percentage of my comapny calls him a pompous douchebag.

    However from both INTJs I have gotten superb, if painful, product development feedback.)

    I just noticed this part of your post, and I think you have a similar reaction to INTJs that I have to ENTPs. It's like we're opposites in that regard. Very interesting.

  2. #842
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heart&Brain View Post
    Oh HP, you are definitely not alone! I have always loved verbal sparring. Maybe not always, but at least since the age of 9-10 years I've felt the joy of intellectual discussions.
    And looking back, I've almost always found it a huge relief (yeah, tertiary Te...) to discuss with T's as they hardly ever mix up rational disagreement, witty puns and relentless insistency with personal attacks. The sharper I get, the more they beam - it's so liberating! At least for an ENFP fearful of hurting anybody.

    The last couple of years public debate is even becoming part of my work life, which suits me better than I thought...

    And while I don't know other confirmed ENFPs IRL, the two that I guess share my type are very much into debate as well.
    It could be due to the E. INFPs I know don't seek debate. Though, if they do get agitated enough about a subject to actually raise their voice and debate you, you know you must have overstepped / overlooked something important. Beware.

    Anyway, perhaps unlike ENTPs (who I find very, very inspiring to discuss with, btw.) I've never got the impression that ENFPs will do it for the sport alone. The issue discussed has to have an emotional or ethical importance.


    PS. Eh-um... my ex-husband, father of my kids, is ISTP too. It seems we have a trend of (young?) ENFPs being into ISTPs. Maybe we should make a thread about this - sometimes quite disastrous - combo?
    Come to think of it, I read somewhere that ISTPs are the type most easily being confused with INTJ. Never fully understood why that would be the case, but I must admit those two types come up quite a bit in serious ENFP tales of romance.
    I think the debate is Te-Te in ENFPs is worth some discussion. Te in general doesnt get much attention at the forum as most of our NTs are Ti. I had a lot of thoughts about how Te gets utilized by ENFPs that I will gather over the next few days and post here in this thread.

    ISTPs? maybe because they kinda look INTJ like on the surface? I dunno... Sapienne why did you like your ISTP? Mine picked me up over his shoulder and drug me out of a fast food restaurant at 17. Things just went from there. I think he was looking for an Fe user to be nurturing towards him, but when young didnt want the control of an ENFJ. ENFPs can be really sweet when we are young so I can see the confusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I just noticed this part of your post, and I think you have a similar reaction to INTJs that I have to ENTPs. It's like we're opposites in that regard. Very interesting.
    My ENTPs feed Ne. Our ideas race past each other. Since I am super crazy Ne, it's like taking drugs. We also giggle at all the same stuff and they get my jokes and random ass connections.

    My INTJs do something totally different. I love them. Like the real deal with Fi and everything. I feel deep affection for several of the INTJs I work with. One is an older man-about 60. When I stop by his office I always hug him and the other day we exchanged "I love you"s after we spoke of the recent loss of his step son. At the christmas party two of the INTJ women I worked with set at my table. After a glass of wine I actually found myself reaching over and touching one on the cheek gently, as she has been through so much in the last two years with anorexia and a near divorce.

    The other INTJ women has the utter goofiest silly enfp husband ever and although an executive, chose to sit at our table. She has MS, had a baby who had to have open heart surgery this year, and has gotten handed the biggest cluster fuck at our company this year. She is fixing the shit because thats what she does. Before her baby's surgery I stopped by one day and she looked at me and said "My baby's name is Seth" and started crying. That's when i realized that none of the Fe users would call him anything but her "baby" or talk directly to her about him. The chance of him dying was significant and I guess they avoided her? i dont understand why. He came through okay. Sometimes I sneak by and leave anon flowers in her office. I actually recall touching her face, as well, one day at work, because she looked so incredibly tired and had big circles under her eyes.

    The first INTJ I talked about-I actually care for him as well. I tried to buy lunch, but when he isnt criticizing my product, he is very protectively paternal and stole the check from me. He watches out for the trainers when they are visiting as well.

    That last one-well he's just a youngster and I tend to find myself meeting direct Te with Te-a battle I cant win with these guys-thus the duct tape emotional affirmation scenario. You will love my products, thus inadvertently loving me eh?? muhahahahahahaaaa!

  3. #843
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    With intjs on a "path", it is much harder to derail-i think they can "feel" what they don't know and dig until they find the pivot point-the crux, the flaw.
    That sounds about right (and probably accounts for why others sometimes feel like we're just trying to undermine them or their efforts).


    Intjs-is it enough to get to the end of the path and understand the truth?

    Do you expect others to resolve?

    Would you ideally create your own resolution?

    This same dynamic might bubble up occasionally as a pattern in the intj/enfp relationship. I dunno though....
    If I get to the end of the path and find that an error has definitely been made, I expect it to be recognized and hopefully resolved. At the very least I expect to talk about it until we know why it happened and how we can make sure it doesn't occur again. If the other party attempts to just brush it off, I'll keep badgering about it (seriously, like a hunting dog with no discipline...it's one of the qualities I like least about myself).

    It does seem to cause problems more frequently with people who value social harmony, which includes a lot of types, but very frequently XNFPs fall in that group (I swear, it's not just Fe users).


    EDIT: Sorry, just dropped in. I might be totally off the flow of the convo but I wanted to respond to these questions.
    "There's no need to be embarrassed about it, Mr. Spock. It happens to the birds and the bees!"

  4. #844
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heart&Brain View Post
    PS. Eh-um... my ex-husband, father of my kids, is ISTP too. It seems we have a trend of (young?) ENFPs being into ISTPs. Maybe we should make a thread about this - sometimes quite disastrous - combo?
    Come to think of it, I read somewhere that ISTPs are the type most easily being confused with INTJ. Never fully understood why that would be the case, but I must admit those two types come up quite a bit in serious ENFP tales of romance.
    Story of my life, so far.

    I'm 27, met my ISTP at 18, had an intimate relationship with him on and off for nearly a decade.

    It took me a while to figure out his type, he is so incredibly intelligent, when not adventuring/vacationing or playing with/programming/fixing/building his computer, and, or actually creating/building something, (he's a civil engineer), he spends his free time reading and thinking, he's always thinking, in fact, he's one of the smartest guys I know, and definitely the most pragmatic, and goal-oriented.

    This was why it was difficult for me to ascertain whether he was an N or an S, I think he is pretty borderline, but still more of an S than an N, and due to his micro-managing goal-oriented self, I played with the idea of his possibly being a J, however, I was NEVER confused about his I and his T.

    What's odd is, even though I was incredibly attracted to him, and all of his attributes, I can honestly say that he and my current INTJ boyfriend have nearly NOTHING in common, other than the fact that they are both incredibly intelligent.

    This fact baffles me.



    How could I be so attracted to two men who are soooooo incredibly different.

    It honestly doesn't make sense.

    Rarely, if ever, has my INTJ reminded me of my ISTP.

    However, he has told me that I, at times, remind him of his ESFP ex.

    This makes sense to me.

    You are attracted to what you are attracted to.

    Wait, two other similarites I just put together, they're both not liars, and neither of them are pussies.

    But, yeah.

    My ISTP was, no, is 100% T, he does have a beating heart and all, but he is the least emotional guy I know.

    He's also pretty emotionally unintelligent, which has actually improved over the years.

    I need to ruminate on this more, because I find it both interesting, and compelling.

    I understand how both the ISTP and the INTJ personalities suit the ENFP one so well.

    And how both could potentially make for optimal unions.

    My recent thoughts have been on the P-connection.

    In life, and in general, I get along better with Ps, I feel at ease with them, they're chill, I'm chill, we're chill, y'know?

    Hmm, more thoughts to come.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  5. #845
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Just thought of this...

    My ISTP:

    Satiated and stimulated my Ne

    Stifled my Fi

    And Trampled on my Te <--- seems ironic, but is sooooo very true.

    My INTJ:

    There's the intuitive connection there, we see things others don't.

    Understands, appreciates, and fosters my Fi, which is GREAT!!!

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  6. #846
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Other funny and pertinent thought...

    ISTP thinks MBTI/Typology is a bunch of psycho-babble bullshit one or two cognitive steps above religion.

    INTJ believes in, and utilizes MBTI/Typology as a legitimate source of ascertaining/explaining human behavior/personality
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  7. #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    Just thought of this...

    My ISTP:

    Satiated and stimulated my Ne

    Stifled my Fi

    And Trampled on my Te <--- seems ironic, but is sooooo very true.
    Being with an SFP is a little different - we profoundly connected with Fi (very passionate, emotionally connected relationship) , and his Te satisfied mine (very straight forward, brutally honest, sometimes incisively witty, and more externally ordered due to him having Se instead of Ne) ...but he was readily annoyed by my Ne not being Se (you're always overanalyzing shit, blah blah blah) and had virtually no respect for the Si that I have to the point of mocking and ridiculing it.

    I also got annoyed by the S/N divide, too, a lot I'm not going to lie. I felt like he didn't think about or analyze anything enough.

    Also, people were always telling us we were too much alike, but in important ways too different. I wonder if all NFP/SFP relationships have that quality.

  8. #848
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Being with an SFP is a little different - we profoundly connected with Fi (very passionate, emotionally connected relationship) , and his Te satisfied mine (very straight forward, brutally honest, sometimes incisively witty, and more externally ordered due to him having Se instead of Ne) ...but he was readily annoyed by my Ne not being Se (you're always overanalyzing shit, blah blah blah) and had virtually no respect for the Si that I have to the point of mocking and ridiculing it.

    I also got annoyed by the S/N divide, too, a lot I'm not going to lie. I felt like he didn't think about or analyze anything enough.

    Also, people were always telling us we were too much alike, but in important ways too different. I wonder if all NFP/SFP relationships have that quality.
    To your last thought, I would say yes, at least with mine. I was married to an ISTP for seven years and the same things that annoyed you annoyed me (the S/N divide). We fell madly in love and had a special connection that helped to span the differences between us. But those differences (annoyed all the time at my Ne as he didn't understand it) and his distrust in my ability to understand the concrete world when I focus on it, grew more pronounced for us over time. He would ridicule and mock it as well and he still does. The other wonderful qualities of an ISP is what kept up together for so long. I appreciated his ability to live in the concrete world, and he has a spiritual side which he downplays but is very present. (He has a fairly well-developed F side--at times he's more overwhelmed by it than I am by mine). I agree with the other poster about the P quality. I really like it, a lot. I love someone who loves possibilities and doesn't seek resolution right away. That way you keep bantering about ideas. I don't need a conclusion. I'm a poet, though, and prefer it that way.

  9. #849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren View Post
    To your last thought, I would say yes, at least with mine. I was married to an ISTP for seven years and the same things that annoyed you annoyed me (the S/N divide). We fell madly in love and had a special connection that helped to span the differences between us. But those differences (annoyed all the time at my Ne as he didn't understand it) and his distrust in my ability to understand the concrete world when I focus on it, grew more pronounced for us over time. He would ridicule and mock it as well and he still does. The other wonderful qualities of an ISP is what kept up together for so long. I appreciated his ability to live in the concrete world, and he has a spiritual side which he downplays but is very present. I agree with the other poster about the P quality. I really like it, a lot. I love someone who loves possibilities and doesn't seek resolution right away. That way you keep bantering about ideas. I don't need a conclusion. I'm a poet, though, and prefer it that way.
    Can you explain what you mean by "concrete world"?
    Im out, its been fun

  10. #850
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Can you explain what you mean by "concrete world"?
    I find it strange as an SP you don't know what the concrete world means. Is it a situation where you speak a language besides English and so don't get the metaphor?

    The concrete world is the here and now, it's what Se is looking at. It's why my SP ex could easily remember license plate numbers, had great reaction time, won in fights, and noticed people's facial expressions or the look in their eye...because his brain was not always, but usually, focused on living in the concrete world, while I on the other hand missed these details, as well as lacking hand eye coordination, because I've spent so much of my life reading and being inside my own head.

    He used to say, "there is the way the world is, and the way you want it to be, marmalade...you seem to have a problem accepting the world as it is."

    Do you understand now? Surely you relate, but perhaps describe it in different words?

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