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  1. #711
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    I've read a great deal of posts, and I have yet to see one reasonable explanation why this dynamic is 'disastrous.'

  2. #712
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I'm being histrionic because I disagree with you and your methods, and expressing my distaste for your self-congratulatory posts? Who is twisting shit?

    I'm not the only one complaining. Two other ENFPs agree with me. You just keep posting here to prove a point about how your asshattery won't be "censored." Apparently you think your opinion is the only opinion that counts.
    I used the term histrionic because you've previously referred that you had a tendency to get like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I have a very histrionic, black sense of humor. Sure, I was pretty annoyed with Q at one point, but I was far from hurting myself, I assure you.
    And, since I think these recent emotional outburst of yours are a joke - I'm guessing this is you again exercising your awesome histrionic humour.

    Thank you!


    I would ask for ENCORE, but I don't wanna lie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Enough. It would be nice to get back on topic.

    Q, fwiw, I did always state 'I', I think when describing my version of Fi. If it is so far off from others, that's probably due to the individualistic nature of Fi, but I will refrain from commenting on Fi from here on. But at least let this thread go back to what it was meant to discuss, the INTJ-ENFP connection. Which, unfortunately means that Fi will be an element in it. Of course asking questions about that is valid, but this has gotten just out of hand and god knows that by now we should've learned that Fe vs Fi threads or Fi vs Ti threads don't get us anywhere.
    Yeah, and please don't stop posting about Fi. You have given quite a lot of insight to others (including myself). On this particular topic, I don't think I can ever gain understanding. Too far off my radar. But, other Fi topics, like, cooperation versus control, I have understood where you were coming from. So, thank you. Win some, lose some. Meh.

    I just want other Fi-users to post their opinions on Fi. Not for the regulars to stop posting theirs. I don't know how that will happen, as before we reach that stage, a bitchfest occurs.

    As well, in this thread, I limited the "Fi-manipulation" to the two example posters, and have been very conscious (even vocal) about not projecting it as a generalization of Fi. So, I not only agree, and have supported your use of "I".

    Finally, this post of Amar's, agreed. Let this bullshit stop. I'm out. The thread is all yours.

  3. #713
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I used the term histrionic because you've previously referred that you had a tendency to get like that.



    And, since I think these recent emotional outburst of yours are a joke - I'm guessing this is you again exercising your awesome histrionic humour.

    Thank you!


    I would ask for ENCORE, but I don't wanna lie.
    Typical ENTP response: making it all about you, making assumptions about the motives for other people's behavior, trying to turn stuff around on others with Fe manipulation, and finally losing all credibility what-so-ever by resorting to 100% ad hominem attacks.

    I just thought it might be nice to get back on topic and take your personal issues with Fi elsewhere. It gets old. It gets boring.

  4. #714
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    Wow, this spiralled out of control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Manipulating someone to make them want you/rely on you is a way for an ENFP to make the relationship go the way they want to. It's scary to actually be in a relationship and let go of manipulation. What if you can't actually get someone without manipulation??!?!

    To have healthy relationships an ENFP has to move past manipulation and let a relationship develop without it. It's difficult.
    So do you know you are making good ground when an ENFP shows you how they flirt with men, their pouty face, etc. ? Giving up their secrets. Was just an ENFP I knew for about a week. It was funny internally because she seemed to have a hard time holding the pouty face when she showed and explained it. Makes me percieve it as a real feeling when she did use it even though even she admited to use it as manipulation.
    Im out, its been fun

  5. #715
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    I am unfortunately out with my sis, right now, but I'm saddened by how this thread has turned into a bash-fest.

    One thing resonates with me, though.

    It is blarringly evident, those of us who are Fi users.

    Awhile back I started a thread: Fi, you only get it if you got it,

    And, my oh, is that sentiment so sadly and beautifully exemplified, here.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  6. #716
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Hmm...lets see...a handful of ENTPs wander into a thread about ENFP/INTJ relationships and turn it into a rambling ten-page dialogue about what they see wrong with "Fi manipulation." You weren't the one who compared it to date rape or emotional abuse, but it was referred to that a few pages back. So drop the "we" and insert "I" when you say judging isn't taking place.
    You have a very strange definition of "judging". Apparently, analogies are judgmental, rather than illustrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    SS, apparently because we can influence people's states of minds, by gently touching upon their emotions, it's considered manipulation. Personally, I don't care what it's called, it's a skill. It's not good or evil. It just is. It's the skill level of the user as well as the ethics they wield that make the difference imo. And as far as I'm concerned you can do the same with turning someone's head upside down (thought) or forcing someone to do something (physical action), for instance, so.. *shrug*
    Fraud (thought) and assault (physical action) are crimes.

  7. #717
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    You have a very strange definition of "judging". Apparently, analogies are judgmental, rather than illustrative.



    Fraud (thought) and assault (physical action) are crimes.
    Criticism is judgemental, unless you accept it, but it doesnt mean you have to like it, but not criticize others because of it or judge them, or maybe if you criticize, then accept your not really judging.

    Or could it be that "judging" is a feeling and we all feel judged in a different manner and it is actually a subjective thing that people are trying to turn objective. Gotta bring reality in to this "abstract" conversation.
    Im out, its been fun

  8. #718
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    You have a very strange definition of "judging". Apparently, analogies are judgmental, rather than illustrative.



    Fraud (thought) and assault (physical action) are crimes.
    Because, of course, you calling touching people's emotions and playing games with a romantic partner assault and thought crimes is not at all judgemental.

  9. #719
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Manipulating someone to make them want you/rely on you is a way for an ENFP to make the relationship go the way they want to. It's scary to actually be in a relationship and let go of manipulation. What if you can't actually get someone without manipulation??!?! To have healthy relationships an ENFP has to move past manipulation and let a relationship develop without it. It's difficult.
    So true. An ENFP has to be comfortable in his/her own skin to be able to risk not manipulating.

    I have no problem tailoring my approach. This is a natural strength that ENFPs have. But tailoring one's approach is different that completely denying who you really are so that you can become who the other person wants you to be. That is the difference between manipulation and boundaries. And, the first time this ENFP did it was the most terrifying and awesomely wonderful experience.

  10. #720
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Dude this thread totally dovetailed.

    On the crackberry so can't read all posts.

    Anyways to get the thread back on topic:

    Intjs-are you aware of how you test people who show a romantic interest in you? I had no idea how common this was. Everybody says you guys do this.

    Are you aware you are doing it?

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