User Tag List

First 1050585960616270110 Last

Results 591 to 600 of 1370

  1. #591
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    As for emotional manipulation, I only use that out of sheer self-defense and even then I'm reluctant, or when it is in fact invited and requested (and yes, I do check that twice before going for it), though maybe you've met people who are less ethical, I dunno.
    I can't see how it would still be considered emotional manipulation if it was invited and requested? Emotional persuasion, but, I can't see manipulation.

  2. #592
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    3h50
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    4,460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    Absolutely. And does this affect us?
    As far as we can tell.

    Yea, why not? They can be can't they?
    And render the distinction between reality and delusion meaningless. Yet another meaningless distinction, as I was mentioning.

    Truth is reality. Not perception of reality. Now what perception must we have to actually see reality? Every person that ever lived has a different perception on things and you will find no two people that have exactly the same perception. What is reality is that which connected equally in every single perception.
    Is it? Or is that simply the best working model we have? Do multiple observers clarify, or muddle the picture even more?

    [quote]Well I would guess that if your knowledge was equal to that of a baby we would never have this conversation.

    What makes that baby's knowledge different from mine?

    But it works because it's true.
    Is it? I can make a missile fly to anywhere in the world using Newtonian physics, but I won't make that warhead explode unless I completely disregard that model.

  3. #593
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Enfp
    Enneagram
    497 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEE Fi
    Posts
    14,660

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I can't see how it would still be considered emotional manipulation if it was invited and requested? Emotional persuasion, but, I can't see manipulation.
    It's a game
    One upping, much like you guys do, beating each other with wit. I do that with emotions. And yes, then it is manipulation, and the other is doing the same to you, to see who can make the other feel uncomfortable, or make them blush, or make them speechless the first. It's still the 'manipulation' of each others emotions, changing your emotional states as such. But it's for fun. It can also be done to benefit the other, to change their mood from sad to happy, or to make them experience pleasure. That too can be requested.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  4. #594
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    And you call us oversensitive? You do the same with mind-rape, dude. And you also tell us to grow up and get over it. And once again, I might not like a guy's hand on my body, but it's not something to scream 'rape' over. I'll just tell him it's not appreciated. Period. As for full blown emotional manipulation, I only use that out of sheer self-defense and even then I'm reluctant, or when it is in fact invited and requested (and yes, I do check that twice before going for it), though maybe you've met people who are less ethical, I dunno. That Fi-connection is somethign I treasure anyways, and don't just share with anyone as it makes me vulnerable too.

    I agree that forcing something on someone is never right. And I for one very much get pissy when I see someone forcing someone else into something they clearly don't want. I'm also the first to stop if I notice that the other person isn't enjoying what I'm doing, whatever that may be, emotional manipulation or not. I'm agreeing with you on this, 100 per cent.

    But realize this isn't evil. It's just not your preference. And other people do very much enjoy it, and that doesn't mean you get to scream 'rape' every time you see it happening.
    I agree, some can handle it while others cant. This is nothing like rape as rape is forced. Dont confuse lack of self-control with rape. I know exactly what you are talking about and because I am married I have actually had to ask an NFP stop looking at me in a certain way and everything went back to normal. I did enjoy it, it was intoxicating, but I have the control to ask her to stop(though it took awhile), she willingly stopped and we went on and enjoyed each others company. If she would have not stopped I could have easily stopped being around her.

    Can I ask if you see it as rape because its not something you feel comfortable talking about or asking someone to stop since it emotionally touches you very deep, but others will see it as just emotions like Amar does?

    Some will misuse this and some may not even be Fi, they may be Fe using it as a tool that they picked up with full intentions on using it in this fashion which puts a bad taste people mouth in regards to people who dont do it conciously. This is why intentions and conciousness matter. Because some of us dont use things as a tool, but we get pinned for "our" intentions.
    Im out, its been fun

  5. #595
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    It's a game
    One upping, much like you guys do, beating each other with wit. I do that with emotions. And yes, then it is manipulation, and the other is doing the same to you, to see who can make the other feel uncomfortable, or make them blush, or make them speechless the first. It's still the 'manipulation' of each others emotions, changing your emotional states as such. But it's for fun. It can also be done to benefit the other, to change their mood from sad to happy, or to make them experience pleasure. That too can be requested.
    But, when I do that, I will not ever trespass on the integrity of their thought -otherwise, I'd be accused of, or accuse the other of, intellectual dishonesty.

    I'll play around with their thought, challenge the thought, give my interpretation (incorporate something I liked about their thought as my own), but, the essence of their thought is wholly preserved, and owned by them. I don't trespass that territory.

    If somehow, due to an interest from my end, their thought becomes mine as well (internalize), and once it's taken up, I do with it as I please.

    I don't see the translation as easily when it's in the emotional realm - playing around with another's emotions (at their "request"?).

    Thoughts aren't felt, emotions are.

    Another's emotion can never become mine, regardless of how much I try to take it up (internalize), emphathize, sympathize, thus, I cannot do with it what I please.

  6. #596
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    But, when I do that, I will not ever trespass on the integrity of their thought -otherwise, I'd be accused of, or accuse the other of, intellectual dishonesty.

    I'll play around with their thought, challenge the thought, give my interpretation (incorporate something I liked about their thought as my own), but, the essence of their thought is wholly preserved, and owned by them. I don't trespass that territory.

    I don't see the translation as easily when it's in the emotional realm - playing around with another's emotions (at their "request"?).

    Thoughts aren't felt, emotions are.
    I have to disclose if I intentionally play with peoples thoughts and it is not very obvious.

    edit: I have actually feel bad when I make a comment, they respond and I turn it into something that would be considered like I manipulated you into believing or thinking what I think.
    Im out, its been fun

  7. #597
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Socionics
    SLI None
    Posts
    6,168

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Is it? Or is that simply the best working model we have? Do multiple observers clarify, or muddle the picture even more?
    You have to look at why the multiple observers see something and why it would connect to one another. There is an underlying reason for everything.

    What makes that baby's knowledge different from mine?
    Quantity and perception. Again, we wouldn't be having this conversation if your knowledge was equal to that of a baby.

    Is it? I can make a missile fly to anywhere in the world using Newtonian physics, but I won't make that warhead explode unless I completely disregard that model.
    Why?

  8. #598
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Enfp
    Enneagram
    497 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEE Fi
    Posts
    14,660

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    But, when I do that, I will not ever trespass on the integrity of their thought -otherwise, I'd be accused of, or accuse the other of, intellectual dishonesty.

    I'll play around with their thought, challenge the thought, give my interpretation (incorporate something I liked about their thought as my own), but, the essence of their thought is wholly preserved, and owned by them. I don't trespass that territory.

    I don't see the translation as easily when it's in the emotional realm - playing around with another's emotions (at their "request"?).

    Thoughts aren't felt, emotions are.
    You're thinking of someone under the duress of self-defense, I think.

    You can say and do certain things to make people feel things. And..some people don't know how to actually feel those things. Hell, some aren't even aware that they feel those emotions, ime. By pushing buttons, they get to experience those things in their own time, at their own convenience. Again, this is at their request only.

    As for one upping, I usually do it with innuendo, or bodylanguage, to put them in a socially difficult situation, which inadvertently causes a sense of uncomfortableness, or blushing. But it's a pleasurable jolt..kinda like an adrenaline rush. And they'll retaliate, causing the same jolt in me, and building on each other. Then it's a matter of calling each others bluff and seeing who will be willing to push the limits. Easiest way to do this is by flirting imo, though it's possible to do it by for instance changing moods every 5 seconds and watching them try and keep up. Or playing around with like personal barriers (you know, that personal space thing you have physically).

    As for changing someone's sad mood to happy...it's pretty much the comforting-process. You let them know they're not alone, they can let go, and you let them ramble about it. Then, at the right time, you enter a lighthearted joke, give them a different way of looking at the situation, and go from your calm comforting demeanor, to a happy and lighthearted one. Most people will follow suit
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  9. #599
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    3h50
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    4,460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    You have to look at why the multiple observers see something and why it would connect to one another. There is an underlying reason for everything.
    Does there have to be?

    Quantity and perception. Again, we wouldn't be having this conversation if your knowledge was equal to that of a baby.
    By what standard?

    Why?
    Because nuclear physics doesn't work with the Newtonian model.

  10. #600
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    I have to disclose if I intentionally play with peoples thoughts and it is not very obvious.
    Thoughts aren't owned in the same way emotions are owned by a person. Because one is felt, and the other is not.

    I don't care if you play with my thoughts, only rule: do not attribute that thought to me, once you've played with it.

    Otherwise, go ahead, knock yourself out (and, most times, I'd even want you to play around with it, I lead with Ne).

    However, the same thing cannot be done with emotions. Because....it is personally felt.

    edit: I have actually feel bad when I make a comment, they respond and I turn it into something that would be considered like I manipulated you into believing or thinking what I think.
    ?? I don't understand what you're meaning here. If you mean that you misrepresented what the other said/meant (manipulation), then, see above, my point about "only rule".
    Also, see:
    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    But, when I do that, I will not ever trespass on the integrity of their thought -otherwise, I'd be accused of, or accuse the other of, intellectual dishonesty.

Similar Threads

  1. [ENFP] ENFP/INTJ Relationship
    By freeeekyyy in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 07-10-2014, 10:36 AM
  2. [ENFP] A question for ENFPs and for people who love them.
    By hazelsees in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 03-04-2013, 08:44 AM
  3. [ENFP] ENFP/INTJ=Perceptive Train wreck o' love?
    By stormyapril in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 10-21-2010, 05:11 AM
  4. [MBTItm] enfp intj marriage
    By saffron in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 02-04-2008, 03:01 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO