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  1. #561
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    [YOUTUBE="ZaI2IlHwmgQ"]Pump it[/YOUTUBE]

    Any INTJs up for some STP driving

    edit: im done, back to the regular ENFP + INTJ programming.
    Im out, its been fun

  2. #562
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    The fist pump is a celebratory gesture in which a closed fist is raised before the torso and subsequently drawn down and nearer to the body in a vigorous, swift motion.The fist pump is sometimes carried out in parts of the Western Hemisphere, Europe, and Japan (where it is known as guts pose) to denote enthusiasm, exuberance, or success and may be accompanied by a similarly energetic exclamation or vociferation. The gesture may be executed once or in a rapid series.

    Though they are notably conspicuous in sporting activities (especially upon the attainment of a goal or score), fist pumps are present in a wide range of other industries including real estate marketing, naval engineering, information technology and entertainment.
    lulz
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  3. #563
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I'm seeking to understand, not to convert. I wonder if you do the same. Coz although I by now understand why it is Fe-users see it the way they do, and I've signalled that as such, I have yet to see any clues of understanding from your side. And I am trying to explain..but I wonder if it's an explanation you want, if you seek to understand, or if you seek to convert. To make me see the error of my ways. You say 'others have these reactions and responses others have to your actions'. Untrue. These are the responses and reactions *you* have to me, and other people who feel the way you do. Fe-users aren't the majority though. There's just as many Fi users, and I don't see you catering to them, or trying to adjust to their needs. To realize the consequences of your actions on them.
    Who said anything about catering to anyone?

    The thing is, I don't think you do realize why we come from the places we do... because we all come from different places! I cannot stand church-lady style Fe, and I've written threads about how I've come to loggerheads with ENFJs I've known. That's because my Fe is an outgrowth of Aux Ti, it's not what I was initially inclined to do! To me, Fe is a logical means to an end, a means of maximizing emotional utility. It's respectful and fair. It lets me be me, and you be you, and us both to love each other for that. It shares its joy with the world and takes joy in the sharing.

    What are these consequences of which you speak? Social conformity? I don't particularly like that, and agree that it's unfair to impose standards just for the sake of imposing standards.

    I was hoping to show you that there are two ways, that we could exchange our views in an attempt to understand one another better. Not judge which one is better, or more preferable. But to rise above our differences () and gain from it, so we can adjust to the people we meet, according to who they are, instead of converting everyone to our own little system. Is there any way you can distance yourself from your 'preferred methods' and see that there is in fact an other way, and although it might not be your cup of tea, it has its place and purpose?
    Here's the thing - yes, there's a time and a place for everything. Yes, there are two ways of exercising the F function. However, they're not equal. Neither are Te and Ti. Ji is simply not compatible with the outside world. It's entirely impractical outside of our internal psyches. It's why Perceivers of all types (including myself) seem unbalanced until we mature.

    I've heard many complain that Ti analysis of a person can seem akin to an evisceration of sorts. This is entirely true, and why developing Fe to soften the process is so important. However, and I'm sorry to use such emotionally charged language, but it's the best I can think of, this Fi "nudging" you speak of? It strikes me the same way that the idea of date rape does. You're using a technique to force yourself into somewhere that the other person has not necessarily agreed for you to go. Is it OK for someone to drug and date rape someone, even if their partner would have had consensual sex with them that evening without the drug?

    I think this is part of why we respond so strongly to these concepts.

  4. #564
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    So to start-remember much of what you are seeing is totally subconcsious. It is not planned, methodical, thus doesnt really qualify as manipulative. It is just our natural behavioral modes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I think it's like a huge faux pas for me, because it makes reality "selective".

    So when someone tries to "manipulate" me, it's like a cardinal sin, because they are trying to narrow down, skew, the possible Ne associations that is there for my taking. And, they're trying to decide which "Ne" would be valid/should be presented to me/for me.
    That's amazingly beautiful.. I think that may be an Ne thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    :steam: This makes me so angry! And, angry at Fi for such things. And, wary of Fi because of it, because it's not seeking truth but impact.

    That makes sense, thank you. I guess, my response is, it seems awfully draining to mirror the pain response. Why not tap into your databank of memory: you know what pain is/was like, its debilitating capacity, so now that you see it, you help, given that you have an understanding of what pain is?

    Not necessarily needing to mirror it first. Seems the easier (least energy-taxing) route.
    On the Fi threads mirroring was brought up. It isnt really a choice-it is an innate biological response. I dont choose it, it just happens. Evolution found a cute way to cheat and insure that we aid the weakest members of the group, as otherwise we suffer their pain. So while I can pick these behaviors apart and describe them analytically, recognize they are as innate as your Ti/Fe. When I cheated with Fe, Fi went away. It was so calm and peaceful.

    I would suggest Fi is the most draining of the judging functions to use.

    As for Fi truth? For another Fi user, it is the truth, albeit then judged according to the standards of Te. Yes, help them through pain, react to the Fi presentation, but then apply Te to give them advice-ie tell them what they need to do. Te is pretty fucking bossy. But from the perspective of Fe, it looks like Fi just won. But later the other Fi users will observe if the Fi user repeats and then judge them via Te accordingly. Te is fucking harsh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I guess my question is, why take such turns in the first place? Why play this game? Why put one person in the position of "weakness"/taking, and the other in a position of "strength"/giving?

    Why not give and take because you can and want to give, and the other decides (independently) that they can and want to, take?

    .....not to play out this dynamic of (to me: energy draining) strength/weakness, dominance/submission [read: manipulation]. And repeat. Ad nauseum.

    I guess, I have a hard time boosting someone's ego, worth, by making myself appear "weak". Or ever wanting that from the other. I can't see it as a "flirt".

    I rather meet them as a challenge, a worthy "opponent", and through that interaction, we give nods: him to certain strength in skills of mine, as I do to his. And we learn. To mimic his skills to patch my weakness. And, him, the same to me.

    And, we realize how better we can challenge an "outsider" given that we've figured out how to "dance", skills pitted against each other, now working in tandem.

    It's like in a "fight", where in the beginning it's clumsy, unpredictable, watching two people go at it, and then, if they do it enough, both giving it their all (their honest worth), soon, the "fight" turns into a dance, and they sway to each other's movement. Because they've learned, respected, and appreciated each other's skills. And, anticipated each other's weakness, and the one with the weakness has learned how to turn it into a strength by watching the other. Without bowing down. Without manipulation.

    One step forward, two step back. Two steps forward, one step back. <- this is what Fi "manipulation" feels like to me, never progressing anywhere.

    Versus

    One step forward, shake me, break me, if you can't, one more step forward I shall move. Onwards. Always. Never "back". <- this is how I see interactions without such "manipulation".
    To be honest-
    Ti often feels "mean" and Fe feels "manipulative" from my perspective. I always thought that the Fe and Ti users were playing mean games and manipulating each other and calling it flirting. But in reality, that game is how you do exactly what you describe above. It's how you bond. If Ti is logical, competitive understanding and Fe is warm compassion with social reciprocal bonds-well you mix those up in layers as you describe above and forge a deeper connection.

    It's the same game with the same end, but played through a different set of functions-Te and Fi. So it looks very different. Te is an assertive function and Fi an empathic one, so the game looks very different, trading of assertive protection with softness, understanding, but back in forth, deeper and deeper to forge those connection. Same result in the end.

    I could never match the ENTPs dance steps and got hurt over and over again. However to play the Te/Fi game is exceptionally easy and very natural. It just flows with no thought needed. You just do exactly what pops into your head because that is the right answer. I cant emphasize how simple it feels. It may not work out between particular individuals but the cadence is very natural.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Lots to talk about...

    And for that one in a million, great. For the 999,999 without Fe that crash and burn behind him or her, wallowing in self-pity and contempt towards those who didn't recognize their greatness, well, that's a sad existence.
    I need to make more observations. I havent seen this trend but I havent been watching closely enough.

  5. #565
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    [YOUTUBE="ZaI2IlHwmgQ"]Pump it[/YOUTUBE]

    Any INTJs up for some STP driving

    edit: im done, back to the regular ENFP + INTJ programming.
    I'm not done, yet, nope, Fergie at 2:55, oh my!!!!



    I am soon going to be taking belly dancing classes and would love to integrate them with hip hop moves.

    So very sensual!



    (And, thank you, you temporarily got that, er, other song out of my head )
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  6. #566
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    You mischaracterize my argument. I consider the selfish behavior to be in imposing one's will upon others without regard to volition. It disrespects their right to self-determination of emotional states.

    It's not the union, it's the compulsion. It's using emotional power to compel someone to act or respond in a certain way. It's in a sense, enslaving that person to one's will.
    Simply by being an Fi user, we are already bound to compel and be compelled by the other. It's just how the function works.

    Use of the function isnt disrespectful as to another Fi user it is perfectly reasonable.

    Use of the function on another non-Fi person also isnt disrespectful-just totally misunderstood by both parties.

    (Now once you get that then you can do really cool things like corner ENTPs in meetings and stare at them with googly Fi eyes so they cant think anymore. Then have the ENTP on your side ask them to make really important decisions. That would be manipulation.)

  7. #567
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    onemoretime, first of all, I hear that Daft punk song whenever I read/write your username

    YouTube - Daft Punk - One More Time (Original) [High Quality]

    I hope that wasn't some satanic intention on your part, oh fuck a duck sideways, it's gonna be stuck in my head aaaaaaalllll daaaayy looooong, one more time, thanks fuck face!!!

    Anyhow, your eNTp typing and presence in this thread lead me to believe that you possibly, er, potentially relate to the INTJ type?!

    amiright?
    Whenever I've done function tests, Ne usually only exceeds Ti by a few points. Along with this, Ni usually is the next highest function reading. Then it's Te/Fe based on how humanitarian I'm feeling that day. From what I hear, this isn't that uncommon. Consequently, I can fake INTJ pretty well - and for other reasons.

    I like how the lowercase e and p look. The P probably should be the largest letter of them all, given the state of my bedroom; however, growing up in a highly conservative household can skew your perceiving abilities.

  8. #568
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Just to give you a hint into Se perception, that tight rope is extremely obvious.
    Not surprising. Still learning the Fe ropes, forgive the pun. Isn't SeNi so wonderfully visual?

  9. #569
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    Simply by being an Fi user, we are already bound to compel and be compelled by the other. It's just how the function works.

    Use of the function isnt disrespectful as to another Fi user it is perfectly reasonable.

    Use of the function on another non-Fi person also isnt disrespectful-just totally misunderstood by both parties.

    (Now once you get that then you can do really cool things like corner ENTPs in meetings and stare at them with googly Fi eyes so they cant think anymore. Then have the ENTP on your side ask them to make really important decisions. That would be manipulation.)
    Not to be flippant, but I guess then the phrase "slave to your passions" isn't entirely figurative.

  10. #570
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Whenever I've done function tests, Ne usually only exceeds Ti by a few points. Along with this, Ni usually is the next highest function reading. Then it's Te/Fe based on how humanitarian I'm feeling that day. From what I hear, this isn't that uncommon. Consequently, I can fake INTJ pretty well - and for other reasons.
    My last cog processes test revealed these scores, but I was feeling incredibly emo that day...

    extraverted Sensing (Se) **************************** (28.2)
    average use
    introverted Sensing (Si) ********* (9.6)
    unused
    extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ********************************************* (45.1)
    excellent use
    introverted Intuiting (Ni) ******************************* (31.2)
    good use
    extraverted Thinking (Te) ********** (10.7)
    unused
    introverted Thinking (Ti) ******************************* (31.4)
    good use
    extraverted Feeling (Fe) ********************************* (33.1)
    good use
    introverted Feeling (Fi) ************************************************** (50.9)
    excellent use



    So, yeah.

    I'm definitely not and INFP, though my I/E is pretty balanced



    ^ More accurate results, methinks.



    I like how the lowercase e and p look. The P probably should be the largest letter of them all, given the state of my bedroom; however, growing up in a highly conservative household can skew your perceiving abilities.
    Ouch, growing up in a highly conservative household, sounds...

    :horor:
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

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