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  1. #541
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    edit: response was meant in response to your post, but not at you

    I respect Fe wishes, but in all honesty why would you want the one place where 2 people are supposed to come together to be the place where you dont unite? I just dont understand.

    The only thing I can think is that you feel an obligation to the world so when you find someone you have a desire to NOT feel obligated around them and any attempt to persuade is extremely touchy in regards to feeling obligated or manipulated. As we all need somewhere to be our unique self.

    Correct me if I am wrong.
    It's because I don't live in the "spos'da", normative world - I live in the positive world. There's no real, tangible union that happens between the people, it's just a psychological perception that a person has. However, what is physical and tangible - I make her feel pleasurable, she makes me feel pleasurable, we both share in our mutual pleasure at the other's pleasure, and that we both make each other happier by the other's presence - is amazing and important.

    Persuasion isn't a terrible thing - we all do it all the time. The difference, however, is in being an honest broker. If I want to know what you're feeling, then I'll ask you straightforward - "hey, how are you feeling". If you don't answer, and I still want to know (because I'm concerned for you at this point), I'll say something like "It's ok, you know you can trust me". If there's no response at that point, then I'll just leave the offer out there: "if you don't want to talk about it right now, that's ok, but just know you have an ear to listen to you".

    The decision's in the other person's court, but I've still made several persuasive pleas - our mutual confidence, my desire to help, and my willingness to respect boundaries but still be available.

  2. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I think you misunderstood the sentiment I tried to say there.

    Not that I would know what they want, but when I see that they're catering to me, to make me their story, rather than a part of it, I will fight to seperate myself from being so intrinsic to their story.

    It'll all self-contained in the realm of me. There's no influence towards their actions, but, how much I will resist to be part of that story if I see that they're making me their story, rather than a part of it.

    How is this manipulative if my actions are seeking to be self-contained?
    But YOU affect ME anytime we decide to cross paths. You are fighting for a balance that seems to go against the back bone of a relationship.

    Sadly I am Fe so I know exactly what you are talking about and I do this in my wife as well, but not in regard to "a story" but in regard to her catering to my wants like christmas tree tinsels, starbucks, etc. I go to the extent of lying about what I want so she doesnt cater to me. Thats where my Fe rears its head, not in the realm of pushing you away so you can have your own story. Its in trivial stuff that has nothing to do with relationships, but wants in life.
    Im out, its been fun

  3. #543
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    Sacrebleu!!!



    Granted, I never read the former, but I own a copy, but that besides the point. :P

    Hamlet's not action-packed interesting, it is just ridiculously before its time, and deals with weighty existential concerns.

    And, Shakespeare...

    Hamlet's more like a puzzle than anything. Find the references, look for the themes, and poof, there you have it. But then again, I'm a T.

    I think The Merchant of Venice is Shakespeare's best precisely because it's supposed to be funny, but it's not at all.

    R&G on the other hand is funny, people don't take it too seriously, but it has some incredibly dense ideas running throughout it.

  4. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    It's because I don't live in the "spos'da", normative world - I live in the positive world. There's no real, tangible union that happens between the people, it's just a psychological perception that a person has. However, what is physical and tangible - I make her feel pleasurable, she makes me feel pleasurable, we both share in our mutual pleasure at the other's pleasure, and that we both make each other happier by the other's presence - is amazing and important.

    Persuasion isn't a terrible thing - we all do it all the time. The difference, however, is in being an honest broker. If I want to know what you're feeling, then I'll ask you straightforward - "hey, how are you feeling". If you don't answer, and I still want to know (because I'm concerned for you at this point), I'll say something like "It's ok, you know you can trust me". If there's no response at that point, then I'll just leave the offer out there: "if you don't want to talk about it right now, that's ok, but just know you have an ear to listen to you".

    The decision's in the other person's court, but I've still made several persuasive pleas - our mutual confidence, my desire to help, and my willingness to respect boundaries but still be available.
    Do feel like you are stuck between a rock and a hard place? ExTP seem to do this and have to try to wiggle out and it comes across as swapping sides. Not saying you are, its just a noticable swap from tertiary Fe to aux Ti.

    What you just said sounds EP to me
    Im out, its been fun

  5. #545
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    There's officially too much intellectualizing going on in this thread!!!

    This thread should be more about this...



    YouTube - Ingrid Michaelson - Take me the way I am

    If you were falling, then I would catch you.
    You need a light, I'd find a match.

    Cause I love the way you say good morning.
    And you take me the way I am.

    If you are chilly, here take my sweater.
    Your head is aching, I'll make it better.

    Cause I love the way you call me baby.
    And you take me the way I am.

    I'd buy you Rogaine when you start losing all your hair.
    Sew on patches to all you tear.

    Cause I love you more than I could ever promise.
    And you take me the way I am.
    You take me the way I am.
    You take me the way I am.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  6. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    There's officially too much intellectualizing going on in this thread!!!

    This thread should be more about this...



    YouTube - Ingrid Michaelson - Take me the way I am
    I know, I see the INTJs watching, but they stopped responding.
    Im out, its been fun

  7. #547
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Plz look at your responses, think them through and tell me how you're not being judgemental.
    Am I being judgmental, or am I advancing a set of ideas? Where does Fe even factor into this? Am I saying "you're a bad person for doing this", or am I saying "these are the responses and reactions others have to these actions, and I don't understand why you don't seemingly take them into account"

    Oh and the last paragraph, I meant rising above the differences, that's what the *them* was referring to. Kinda..interesting to see you automatically assumed it was rising above people I wanted to do.
    Even more interesting that you attribute the interpretation to some mistake I made, rather than the words themselves.

  8. #548
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Hamlet's more like a puzzle than anything. Find the references, look for the themes, and poof, there you have it. But then again, I'm a T.

    I think The Merchant of Venice is Shakespeare's best precisely because it's supposed to be funny, but it's not at all.

    R&G on the other hand is funny, people don't take it too seriously, but it has some incredibly dense ideas running throughout it.
    What say you of Waiting for Godot?

    What say you of A Delicate Balance? <--- slightly more obscure play, but perhaps you've read it.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  9. #549
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Fe is important, as OMT says. But with INTJs you get something slightly different: with the lack of Fe (by which I mean the Fe that one emotionally feels, that motivation to conform), INTJs that become "socially adept" are doing more of an ENTJ thing, using Te instead of Fe. There is no need to conform, but there is a logistical problem of getting people to cooperate. It is possible, with a great deal of experience and skill, to use Te to that end, and have it (almost) seem like Fe. The difference is the motivation. The desire to "fit in" is lacking. Instead, the motivation is whatever goal the Te user has set, for which "fitting in" is simply a step to take to avoid the annoying problems caused by not fitting in.
    This is exactly what I did when I first started socialising. I sensed a need to be around other people, I used Te to fulfil that need. There was no inherent need to fit in per se. Over time, though, I have started to use Fi to relate to people.

  10. #550
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Haven't seen/read either, sorry to say.

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