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  1. #521
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    ^if you say so.

    It's odd though, as you're the one who's fighting for her independence, and being 'selfish' in this story, and it's Fi that actually shares itself with someone else.

    Edit: look at it this way: Fe may constantly seek to balance..Fi is not a balance, it's a pendulum. It'll go from one extreme to another..giving both sides the chance to be their authentic self, without having to compromise..but still, balancing out in the end
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  2. #522
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    We already know if you do it out of obligation or desire. We can sense that while we are taking you down that road. We can sense any hesitation and fight along the way.

    Im not one to say I will race you to bed. I am more the one to hop over the couch, start kissing you on the neck. Or put my hand on the side of your face, touch foreheads, while I pull you close to me. I can sense the slightest hesitation when I take control and my mind is already racing to see if its fear, hesitation, etc, but you will never notice that as I continue to try to draw you in and I continue to try to figure out what path to take.

    I can tell if you feel obligated, its a natural part of who we are and what we have become accustomed to sensing. Doesnt mean I wont stop, but it does mean that I need to figure something else out to get past that obligation feeling.

    P.S. those that do speak in this fashion, it is EXTREMELY obvious when it is out of obligation as opposed to desire. It is felt even without words.

    Grin.

    Fi and Se seem to understand each other, at least on this matter
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    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  3. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Grin.

    Fi and Se seem to understand each other, at least on this matter
    This carries over into pretty much every part of my life though, this is just where things become the most intimate.

    It carries into trying to figure out if you enjoy being around me or not, sensing when someone pulls back in any form or fashion. Its like sensing harmony as opposed to bulldozing it.
    Im out, its been fun

  4. #524
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    ^if you say so.

    It's odd though, as you're the one who's fighting for her independence, and being 'selfish' in this story, and it's Fi that actually shares itself with someone else.
    Odd that you see it this way. I see it as respect - recognizance of the humanity in the other, as being made of the same "stuff" as you are. It's not independence as much as it is recognizing that the other person isn't just a supporting role in the story of your own life, but the protagonist in their own story as well.

  5. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Odd that you see it this way. I see it as respect - recognizance of the humanity in the other, as being made of the same "stuff" as you are. It's not independence as much as it is recognizing that the other person isn't just a supporting role in the story of your own life, but the protagonist in their own story as well.
    But what if you realize you were their story all along
    Im out, its been fun

  6. #526
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Rosencranz and Guildenstern Are Dead is far more interesting than Hamlet, as I've mentioned before.

  7. #527
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Odd that you see it this way. I see it as respect - recognizance of the humanity in the other, as being made of the same "stuff" as you are. It's not independence as much as it is recognizing that the other person isn't just a supporting role in the story of your own life, but the protagonist in their own story as well.
    I prefer writing a story together

    Look, it's simple, we have different priorities. You wanna do all the lovey dovey together stuff when it comes to 'humanity' and mankind, and get a group to get along. Thats great. Me, on the other hand, I prefer respecting people's individuality at that point and compromising only where necessary in order to not get in each others way.

    You consider this selfish on my part, and a negative trait.

    When it's one on one, you consider it healthy to have an open line of communication and two seperate beings who cooperate but not unite. I prefer to make a unity, to become part of someone's life, but not only that, to be part of their soul, mind and body. To get to that point where not even half a word is needed to understand one another.

    And yet again, you consider this negative, in this case manipulative.

    Is it at any point at which I can win? Or is there any point at which you can understand that we do the same things but on different fields? And that both are valid?

    Sorry..I'm kinda tired of the whole Fe judgement scales. Really am. You (= general you, for Fe-users who feel this way about Fi, btw) may consider Fe fairness, I consider it a jugmental bitch at times. You may consider Fi immature, but to me it stands for acceptance. Embracing differences and rising above them without losing your own identity in the masses, yet willing to share it with those that appreciate it, without paranoia or fear of judgement.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  8. #528
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    ^if you say so.

    It's odd though, as you're the one who's fighting for her independence, and being 'selfish' in this story, and it's Fi that actually shares itself with someone else.

    Edit: look at it this way: Fe may constantly seek to balance..Fi is not a balance, it's a pendulum. It'll go from one extreme to another..giving both sides the chance to be their authentic self, without having to compromise..but still, balancing out in the end
    Is this directed at me?

    If so, can you explain how I'm being 'selfish'?

    Compromise doesn't negate one's authentic self - it allows the authentic self to introspect deeper, to its relation with other. It provides further insight into one's self - why did I compromise for X, but, not for Y?

    I guess I can't understand why you wouldn't want to seek balance, moment to moment, rather than imbalance, in hopes that in the end, it somehow equals out?

    Of course, seeking it, and having it are two different things. Sometimes "imbalance" does occur, even in fairness.

    As in, sometimes, fairness calls that one person gets the last piece of food, because they've gone hungry, while I just ate a while ago. However, my really wanting that last piece of food, because it's my favourite, while the other doesn't really like it, doesn't give me the option to eat it. As they're the one who is hungry. The moment is an "imbalance", yet, it's still a balance (not later on down the line, but, in that moment, itself).

    I live moment to moment, and I try to honestly do each moment justice. Each moment itself is just as important as the culmination of moments. My memory is stored in parts, not as an amalgamed whole, and thus, I want to do each part justice.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Odd that you see it this way. I see it as respect - recognizance of the humanity in the other, as being made of the same "stuff" as you are. It's not independence as much as it is recognizing that the other person isn't just a supporting role in the story of your own life, but the protagonist in their own story as well.
    Nicely put. I've said the same thing often in my own life.

    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    But what if you realize you were their story all along
    I would never want to be someone's story. It feels like stealing their identity. I'd love to be a significant part in their story, but, I would fight, on their behalf, to give them their own story, beyond me.

  9. #529
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Back to whether ENFPs and INTJs should make babies.


    I think they should.

    And practice makes perfect, and, regarding that practice...

    You're gonna be as good as useless, tonight, seeing how you probably got around 2 to 3 hours of sleep!!!

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  10. #530
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post

    I don't see how this is achieved solely by manipulation, and cannot be achieved by persuasion (without manipulation)?

    It is cooperative in that both acknowledge they want to "meld" into one another for that moment, and both come together, freely, both move to the center together, each taking their own step. To meet.

    It's euphoric, when you know that they want to be there (not feeling like they "need" to be there - manipulated to feel so), and they met you there, out of their own free will.
    And that is a beautiful thing as well. I used 'manipulation' coz that is how you perceive it. To me it's a friendly request. A nudge. And it can be persuasion just as much. I am not constantly tuned into the world. I am off doing my own things. I don't mind people nudging me if they need to do so, or requesting my attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    To me, it's about them being naked emotionally, and I come to them, out of my own volition, because I see their nakedness, their honest vulnerability, and given such an honest state of being, I want to cover them.

    I wouldn't need a nudge. I'd feel guilty if, in such a state, they needed to nudge me for me to come to them. Their state, with or without me there, that vulnerability of the emotion, the honest emotion, is what will draw me. Not the one they present because they just saw me walk in to the room.
    To me, the naked emotionality is a given. Even when we don't sync up. It's there. But that doesn't mean we're making active use of that connection. And I might be busy elsewhere, and so are they. Still, that line, that connection is always open. So gently nudging me lets me know that they want my attention, which I'm happy to give.



    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Why are you associating manipulation with silence? Even if there's no manipulation, it can all occur without spoken words. Just as you have outlined above.
    The 'manipulation' is in the unspokenness, or even hidden behind the words being spoken. The moment they gently nudge me, touch me emotionally, I get flooded with info on their emotional state. And nothing more, no other words are needed. I just naturally respond to what they need. I can manipulate with words as well, formulating flattery etc. I don't enjoy doing that. But I do enjoy dropping a line, have it mean nothing more than a greeting and attaching an emotionally charged message. Kinda like sending secret love notes

    Edit: SS is right, we should stop derailing..i didn't even realize, sorry.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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