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  2. #492
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Just because the West is Manichean doesn't mean I have to be.

  3. #493
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Just because you don't have to be doesn't mean you couldn't be. No harm in giving it a try.

  4. #494
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    Just because you don't have to be doesn't mean you couldn't be. No harm in giving it a try.
    Sure there is. It would add neither knowledge nor value to the discussion.

  5. #495
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Sure there is. It would add neither knowledge nor value to the discussion.
    It would indeed add knowledge. Knowledge so powerful yet subtle. Something you know yet not know that you know. And that itself raises the value.

  6. #496
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    BTW, that was a joke. Any Fi user will painfully admit that Fe is the most important function of them all. It's the only one you have to use/fake to make it through this world, even if it's not natural.

    INTJ humor attacks its own perceived weaknesses by presenting them as strengths. The humor is in that you're supposed to know that they're weaknesses. The problem is, most people don't realize that, nor should they.

    Internal joke while missing the cosmic joke.
    Fuck work, this is far more interesting. (once you apply compassionate detachment in the workplace, everything just goes downhill)

    Onemortime-a lack of Fe is what allows INTJs to move mountains.

    The can NiTe see every possible outcome, identify all disasters, all potholes, all barriers, mitigate and forge ahead. They cant see anything BUT reality-with every possible flaw, every permutation. And they dont care if anyone likes them. They dont care if you get mad at them. They dont care what anyone thinks of them.

    Even the most diehard Fe user, cannot deny the brute force and strategic power of NiTe. Combine that with the lack of Fe and not leading with Fi, and they are drivers regardless if anyone likes it.

    I am cursed with NeFi with a good dose of Te. I can NeTe see the whole fucking system melting down, I can't help but speak up and drive due to Te, yet am then left feeling utterly rejected due to NeFi wanting emotional affirmation. It's like I kick my own ass everyday. Maybe more like putting my own hand in the garbage disposal, yet I just cant quite stop myself. The truth/reality is just too obvious not to directly address.

    ENTPs are very different. You buy into the Fe social fabric. You recreate your own social reality using Fe and play it like an instrument, with exceptional beauty and skill, excluding those who are not suited to the game with knife-like precision. But at some point it, Fe reality and true reality are no longer the same. Fe reality is full of smiles and congratulations and slaps on the back, only affirmation.

    Reality is ugly, painful, full of failures and harsh. It must be addressed.

    My very best ENTP man-a senior VP-let me down recently once I saw how he also bought into the Fe social fabric in trade for Ti logic. But, perhaps key to his success-he surrounds himself with INTJs at the next level down. He has five now and turns them loose on nightmarish problems. It's brutal, yet fascinating.

    A question-if an ENTP can recreate a social reality based upon Fe, can they create one in which they are isolated and function like an INTJ, becoming independent of the social fabric?

  7. #497
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    Fuck work, this is far more interesting. (once you apply compassionate detachment in the workplace, everything just goes downhill)

    Onemortime-a lack of Fe is what allows INTJs to move mountains.

    The can NiTe see every possible outcome, identify all disasters, all potholes, all barriers, mitigate and forge ahead. They cant see anything BUT reality-with every possible flaw, every permutation. And they dont care if anyone likes them. They dont care if you get mad at them. They dont care what anyone thinks of them.

    Even the most diehard Fe user, cannot deny the brute force and strategic power of NiTe. Combine that with the lack of Fe and not leading with Fi, and they are drivers regardless if anyone likes it.

    I am cursed with NeFi with a good dose of Te. I can NeTe see the whole fucking system melting down, I can't help but speak up and drive due to Te, yet am then left feeling utterly rejected due to NeFi wanting emotional affirmation. It's like I kick my own ass everyday. Maybe more like putting my own hand in the garbage disposal, yet I just cant quite stop myself. The truth/reality is just too obvious not to directly address.

    ENTPs are very different. You buy into the Fe social fabric. You recreate your own social reality using Fe and play it like an instrument, with exceptional beauty and skill, excluding those who are not suited to the game with knife-like precision. But at some point it, Fe reality and true reality are no longer the same. Fe reality is full of smiles and congratulations and slaps on the back, only affirmation.

    Reality is ugly, painful, full of failures and harsh. It must be addressed.

    My very best ENTP man-a senior VP-let me down recently once I saw how he also bought into the Fe social fabric in trade for Ti logic. But, perhaps key to his success-he surrounds himself with INTJs at the next level down. He has five now and turns them loose on nightmarish problems. It's brutal, yet fascinating.

    A question-if an ENTP can recreate a social reality based upon Fe, can they create one in which they are isolated and function like an INTJ, becoming independent of the social fabric?
    Yes, this is more interesting. Happy Puppy, that's a great analysis of INTJs; balanced, because the flaws are strengths and vice versa, depending on the situation.

    Fe is important, as OMT says. But with INTJs you get something slightly different: with the lack of Fe (by which I mean the Fe that one emotionally feels, that motivation to conform), INTJs that become "socially adept" are doing more of an ENTJ thing, using Te instead of Fe. There is no need to conform, but there is a logistical problem of getting people to cooperate. It is possible, with a great deal of experience and skill, to use Te to that end, and have it (almost) seem like Fe. The difference is the motivation. The desire to "fit in" is lacking. Instead, the motivation is whatever goal the Te user has set, for which "fitting in" is simply a step to take to avoid the annoying problems caused by not fitting in.

  8. #498
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    It would indeed add knowledge. Knowledge so powerful yet subtle. Something you know yet not know that you know. And that itself raises the value.
    I already know it. It exists in the between. Or the not. Or maybe it doesn't exist at all. I at least know these.

    Is knowledge powerful? How do you define power?

  9. #499
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Guys, maybe we should make a 'Analyze INTJs vs ENTPs'-thread for this..
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  10. #500
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Guys, maybe we should make a 'Analyze INTJs vs ENTPs'-thread for this..
    oh noes, I dont want to bend over again...
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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