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  1. #321
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    This, for shizzle. However, I think this ability also has something to do with Ni.
    I think you speak the truth.

    So I went to lunch today with my ENTP sidekick. We were chatting about INTJs, cause you know, they are just cool and stuff and sometimes come up as topics of conversation.

    So both pondered the nature of Ni with our Ne sparkly brains.

    She described how once she experienced Ni-she was sitting in a park, depressed, sad, shadow INTJ-like and looking at a row of houses in a long line next to a park. Suddenly the houses seemed to be on fire. She said it was amazing.

    I explained how when I was cheating with Fe, I could sometimes get a taste of Ni. It made trees become very strange things-become broccoli like. Also it made the marble tile on a counter become one with a picture of the background radiation of the universe, that I once saw. Things seemed to "be" other things. Not "be like" but "be".

    This sounds fucking stupid huh? However we both sat there in states of awe, recalling these experiences. Stunned, silent awe, which is saying something as we dont typically shut up.

    I looked at her and I said, "Imagine being able to do that to all of reality." I dont even understand what that means.

  2. #322
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Appalling.

    Hahahaha, I knew that looked wrong. :P

    Wait, aren't we getting really off topic, here?



    Intjs...
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  3. #323
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    I think you speak the truth.

    So I went to lunch today with my ENTP sidekick. We were chatting about INTJs, cause you know, they are just cool and stuff and sometimes come up as topics of conversation.

    So both pondered the nature of Ni with our Ne sparkly brains.

    She described how once she experienced Ni-she was sitting in a park, depressed, sad, shadow INTJ-like and looking at a row of houses in a long line next to a park. Suddenly the houses seemed to be on fire. She said it was amazing.

    I explained how when I was cheating with Fe, I could sometimes get a taste of Ni. It made trees become very strange things-become broccoli like. Also it made the marble tile on a counter become one with a picture of the background radiation of the universe, that I once saw. Things seemed to "be" other things. Not "be like" but "be".

    This sounds fucking stupid huh? However we both sat there in states of awe, recalling these experiences. Stunned, silent awe, which is saying something as we dont typically shut up.

    I looked at her and I said, "Imagine being able to do that to all of reality." I dont even understand what that means.
    That's not too far off, really. For me, Ni is the ability to take two things that have nothing to do with each other, except for similar relationships within the various "pieces" of each thing, and draw useful analogies. Tree as broccoli is one such. On one level, it's a useless comparison: they aren't the same thing at all in a lot of ways. On another, it's very useful, e.g., "Oh, yeah, it would be a lot easier to use broccoli for my art project than paper mache trees!" At the artistic level, the broccoli "system" is very similar to the tree "system."

  4. #324
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Happy puppy,

    But, but, but...

    I cannot fathom a world o' things sans analogies and metaphors!!!

    A drop

    A puddle

    A pool

    A lake

    An ocean.

    H20, water is water.

    I get it.

    But all of its manifestations, and functions.

    I'm drinking Coke Zero, water with myriad potentially carcinogenic chemicals.

    Wait, I forgot my point.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  5. #325
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    That's not too far off, really. For me, Ni is the ability to take two things that have nothing to do with each other, except for similar relationships within the various "pieces" of each thing, and draw useful analogies. Tree as broccoli is one such. On one level, it's a useless comparison: they aren't the same thing at all in a lot of ways. On another, it's very useful, e.g., "Oh, yeah, it would be a lot easier to use broccoli for my art project than paper mache trees!" At the artistic level, the broccoli "system" is very similar to the tree "system."
    haha, I do recall thinking, hmmm.. this is interesting. so what do I do with this information? I think it was exceptionally simplistic compared to what you guys do honestly.

    (Sapienne, it's okay you can derail our thread anyday. Those moms need poodles, not kids)

  6. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    Are sure this isnt how you would apply Se to the Ti logical connections? Ie a practical application of the idea and how to merge the two different concepts to produce something productive?





    Ti, Se, Ni..... Hmmm... Poki what are you doing to reality? God, I wish I fucking understood Ni better...I am so annoyed. Poki you are getting at something important here, but I am too slow to understand it. Damnit.

    You see the logical reality in front of you-Se, but then can see different ways to remodel/recreate-Ni it at the same time to rebuild into something productive and logical???

    (I also carry around rocks-typically in my pockets though)
    I guess Ni is like a memory bank of ideas and concepts, so what you see above with Ne spidering out, I store concepts in my head that Se and Ti have tore apart. Everything that onemoretime said I already knew, but instead of going from concept to concept. Its like an instant cross-referencing of concepts as I understand them into reality and vice-versa. When people stay high level in regard to questions like the above posts I dont have enough to tear apart, conceptualize, and cross-reference with reality. I wish I knew how my brain worked, its pretty much either something pops up or it doesnt. I have a hard time trusting it as their is no rhyme or reason to my methodology.
    Im out, its been fun

  7. #327
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    That's not too far off, really. For me, Ni is the ability to take two things that have nothing to do with each other, except for similar relationships within the various "pieces" of each thing, and draw useful analogies. Tree as broccoli is one such. On one level, it's a useless comparison: they aren't the same thing at all in a lot of ways. On another, it's very useful, e.g., "Oh, yeah, it would be a lot easier to use broccoli for my art project than paper mache trees!" At the artistic level, the broccoli "system" is very similar to the tree "system."
    It's our blessing and our curse. There is a fine line between discovering connections and concocting them. Between having a deeper understanding of reality and losing touch with it.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  8. #328
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    Happy puppy,

    But, but, but...

    I cannot fathom a world o' things sans analogies and metaphors!!!

    A drop

    A puddle

    A pool

    A lake

    An ocean.

    H20, water is water.

    I get it.

    But all of its manifestations, and functions.

    I'm drinking Coke Zero, water with myriad potentially carcinogenic chemicals.

    Wait, I forgot my point.

    EXACTLY!!!! Ne keeps hopping from item to item to item, endlessly connecting.

    I swim, dance, splash, play

    water weaves
    cloth dances

    candles burn
    endless ether

    flashing shining whole within without,

    dancing endlessly onwards, the ideas/words are like rain or water running down the side of a cliff, hitting rocks, splashing up into a myriad of endless sprinkles, to forge ahead anew to connect to new ideas. Without Ti, Fi blends all types of beautiful things into a merge sense of wholeness.

    I can connect ANYTHING, then analyze with te. At any one point I will have about ten different threads here that I would like to pull together into new ideas, new combinations. The other day I connected ENFP learning with a math technique-that less than 1% of the population understands, (alas Ne isnt always practical)

    My cheated tiny, flawed Ni seemed very different. It never left the object.

    Okay, this is really stupid, but when cheating with Fe, I made up a story for my toddler. It was about a beautiful doe-deer at a dance dressed in a ball gown. Except the story never went anywhere because I just kept adding details to the gown and the deer. Everytime I looked at the deer in my mind, I could see more details, more things to elaborate on. Her eyes, her nose, her ears, each individual hair, her dress. However SHE-the object in question-was the entire point. I had no interest is thinking of anything but that particular object-her. Same thing with the trees. Normally I look at a tree and follow all the branches to the ends of the tips, then see all of them connecting like a giant web. I love patterns for this reason as well.

    (I LOVE WAVES. endlessly changing, always moving, always connecting.I want to melt into the waves)

    But Ni trees-nope the tree itself is the center point. It was everything. Everytime I tried to turn away I was pulled back towards the tree.

    Anyways, all cheated, simplistic and highly suspect, but enough to show how Ni could be some fascinating stuff and is very different from the Ne that defines us.

  9. #329
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    It's our blessing and our curse. There is a fine line between discovering connections and concocting them. Between having a deeper understanding of reality and losing touch with it.
    That's the purpose of Te for the INTJ. The Ni keeps on telling us "this is like that", for all sorts of unrelated things. Te kicks in and says, "No it isn't." Or Te kicks in and say, "Oh, wait, there might be something to it. *scribble scribble think think* Oh, yeah, wow, that works!" When I'm going "all out INTJ" it's a continuous dialogue, with Ni throwing out all sorts of understandings, some of them extremely sophisticated, and Te keeps it grounded in the real world.

    This is also why we like the puns: "this word sounds like that word." Te rejects it as false, but Fi notes that it's really funny if you say it. Then we say the absurd pun statement and see if anyone notices.

    It's also how we can apply one level of understanding to something completely unrelated. For instance, in dancing, if I am holding both of my partner's hands, it can act either like a fermion or a boson. In particular a left-to-left, right-to-right connection is a fermion. Let's say the hold is in the +1/2 state, left over right. Turning her to the left (counterclockwise one rotation), the state is now -1/2, right over left. Alternatively, it's possible to turn her to the right one full turn, and have a +3/2 state (awkward, but doable). The mathematical rule is that each "X" crossing in the connection counts as 1/2 spin.

  10. #330
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    I guess Ni is like a memory bank of ideas and concepts, so what you see above with Ne spidering out, I store concepts in my head that Se and Ti have tore apart. Everything that onemoretime said I already knew, but instead of going from concept to concept. Its like an instant cross-referencing of concepts as I understand them into reality and vice-versa. When people stay high level in regard to questions like the above posts I dont have enough to tear apart, conceptualize, and cross-reference with reality. I wish I knew how my brain worked, its pretty much either something pops up or it doesnt. I have a hard time trusting it as their is no rhyme or reason to my methodology.
    I remember this about ISTPs and tert Ni-it is very visceral and sort of pops up out of the blue. I think the ISFPs-Fi, Se, Ni have the same thing happen. It's interesting to read charles Bukowski's poetry as you can see the poems cadence-Se, Se, Se, Fi, Se, Se, then this dramatic Ni moment, then back to Se, Se again. I see this a lot with your posts-you are trying to take these really abstract things and restate concretely, but dont have the right words.


    I could see this in my Ex ISTP and his art. He was as practical a human being as you can possibly be, yet he would draw really odd things. It was like Ni forces it ways up? I dunno?? meh, I am just making up stuff I am afraid, but keep posting Poki as I like trying to understand how you see these things.

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