No worries, it was more of a dropping for Happy Puppy to stumble upon.
"Be sensitive to me, or I will get hurt, but, I don't need to extend the same sensitivity to [you], myself." - yours
"Don't tell me that I am incompetent, because I'll act like a brat, but, in another incident, I will play up my helplessness/incompetency to get you to do the thing for me, so you can re-assert the feeling of rescuing the 'damsel in distress'." - Amar's
I do love cute little bird poop.
comment 1-refer to below crying
Comment 2- Amar's case: It's how we flirt. It's a subtle game of seeking dominance, but then letting the dominance be returned. A Te game of give and take, of need/not need but you can help me anyways, if it makes you feel stronger/of I cant really do this but I will try anyways. Totally flies in the face of everything ENTP women typically value in terms of independence. It's a little weird, but a Te thing. It appears to be the language we speak.
It was more an exercise in Fe's reaction to Fi, perhaps? Fairness regardless of who is at the other end.
While Fi will say, look at the individual need, and even if it seems biased, extend the courtesy to that which subjectively "needs" it more.
I remember all my friends/housemates (all Fs) observing a fight between myself and our ESFP roomie, a few years back. She started to cry, and they showed her sympathy. And, I remember getting so frustrated that the one who could "cry" gets the support. Not the argument itself. I remember telling her/them, "Crying doesn't make you right."
yup this sounds right-See mirror idea below. The biggest reflection always wins.
Yup.
To me, that crying was interpreted as manipulation - for me to stop my "attack" on her, and to get coddled by the observers. (I knew her well enough to know some of her 'ways')
I would have stopped, all she simply had to do was, say, "I've had enough, just stop.".......but the first second I sense someone is trying to manipulate my emotions, somehow, it's not pretty.
It's the difference between being emotional and using emotionality as a crutch...it's a very fine line, but, it's a line that's there.
Fi extroverts it's emotive response-its exposes pain. It announces to the external world it is in pain. It is a call for help. Recognize this IS THE ONLY WAY another Fi user understands that user 1 needs help. User1's pain triggers a mirrored pain response in user2, that forces user2 to help user1.
Rather than rely upon social reciprocation via shared affection/shared resources-Fe, we rely upon well-fuck, for lack of a better term-manipulation of another's internal emotions-Fi, to garner the assistance we need. It is manipulation, but between two Fi users, should really be considered more a form of communication. It's how we share and help each other.
It may appear selfish but remember we are bound by the same biological effect to mirror another's pain, thus help them later. We kinda take turns I guess.
I have noticed ENTPs in particular respond in withdraw at overt Fi usage. A couple of thoughts?
1. Perhaps it starts the process of evoking an uncosncious Fi within you. Thus you start down the road of mirroring their emotive state-which I'd imagine feels horrifically invasive and intrusive as well as manipulative. My entp friend says Fi makes her unable to think.
2. You guys are very sensitive to subtle facial cues and ENFPs are highly expressive and also very sensitive to subtle signs of social withdraw on other';s faces. I emote, you cringe, I emote more not understanding why you cringed, even pursuing you as I still need assistance, then overly emoting. The pair may return to a state of status quo, but it is a guarded one, and each picks up that the other is on guard via subtle observations-the lack of eye contact perhaps, the dry mouth, the lack of overt emoting on the ENFPs part?
3. It may just be that Fi is utterly alien to most entps as you use it so rarely. Sometime I'll show you the goggle eyed picture. It's my ENTP deterrent.
How to deal with the cryer? I'd use Te to call her on her acting like a child and lacking in accountibility. However my opinion is way, way harsh. I have an ESFP sister.
A neat thing you see with Fi-the boy who cried wolf effect. If someone uses Fi manipulatively, after awhile we learn to selectively screen that person out of our mirrored data set.
Hmmm, this may be why you see a weird bitchy selfish look to ESFPs sometimes. They emote their own Fi openly, but must shield themselves heavily from the Fi external emoting of others via a Te wall since they cant hide from it due to Se. (Ne can hide in it's head) Some ENFPs do a bit of this, I do this with my family, but it is hard to maintain. worthy of further thought.
So, I've sent her a short emailing telling her that she seems to have withdrawn a bit, that if something has changed I'm sorry, and that she continues to intrigue me. We'll see.
At her age she is using significant Te. She may want to be independent and may need to some time to decide if she really wants you in her space or not. Te wants a leader. Who gets to be the leader?
Have you not noticed that INTJs are just as arrogant as many of the outwardly aggressive (ENTJ, ESTP, ENTP, etc.) types? Many of them have extraordinarily high opinions of themselves, sometimes bordering on narcissism; they just don't usually see a good reason to tell everyone about it.
As a Te user, I dont sense arrogance, I sense assertive. It's the Fe overlay on an ENTP that conveys arrogance. It makes me question my observations relative to what an Fe user might see. Am I misreading Fe for arrogance as you may misread Te for arrogance?
Interesting.
Actually not true...it's very visible when INTJs are joking...ENTPs on the other hand..
Fi vs Fe The INFJs can tell when the ENTPs are joking.
I think the funniest part about the INTJ-ENTP dynamic is that we understand the ENTP so well, but the ENTP seems to have no idea what makes us tick.
I would strongly disagree. Although I would never allow one to work without the other. INTJs can get stuck in an Ni abyss and ENTPs lack a sense of Te logistics. ENTPs will be overly Ne-optimistic and INTJs can sense the strategic landscape much better with Ni and find the flaws. A beautiful pairing.
