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  1. #221
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Any ideas on how enneagram effects this combination ?


    Which combinations/pairs of numbers should work best here ?

  2. #222
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    I've had great, long lasting friendships with INTJ's so I must be a strange ENFP.

    So why is this still being argued if it's know that INTJ and ENFP have made good pairings. Are we trying to say a certain % don't work? If you find this many INTJ/ENFP pairings doesn't that invalidate the theory?

  3. #223
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    I've had great, long lasting friendships with INTJ's so I must be a strange ENFP.

    So why is this still being argued if it's know that INTJ and ENFP have made good pairings. Are we trying to say a certain % don't work? If you find this many INTJ/ENFP pairings doesn't that invalidate the theory?



    We are only talking about potential problems here. (and nothing more)

  4. #224
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Oh, hey wait, who's pulling the hubris here... if I say there's problems, and the ENFPs say, naw, watru, a 14-year-old virgin, you guys are figuring that whatever issue arises, there'll be some way to approach it. Either there is no issue--but shit, you guys have done nothing at all except splutter noes--or you figure whatever issue is whatever issue.

    So, back to the issue, who gets to decide the truth, you with your in-the-moment suggestioneering, or me with my 14-year-old virginity?

    That's why you can't be trusted: unless you've seen it before, you don't know what will happen, and if it goes bad, then it went bad, but that it started out as a possible thing, as yet mysterious, then that was good enough and you said it was all going to be okay.

    Who decides? That is, which intuitive philosophy wins? Ne with its requirement that unknown things be lovely until they are known or Ni with its requirement that new things can be known and shunned before they happen?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  5. #225
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Who decides? That is, which intuitive philosophy wins? Ne with its requirement that unknown things be lovely until they are known or Ni with its requirement that new things can be known and shunned before they happen?
    it's a constant balancing act, but the hope is that you both rub off on each other. you want to look forward to the future less and live in the present more. they want to have more direction. trying to integrate your decisions to be in sync is the most difficult part of this. you absolutely have to get more ok with unknown variables in order to be with an enfp, but if you get each other, they'll make that prospect exciting.

    if you don't have similar values to the enfp, and you want similar values to be a part of your relationship, you're gonna be in trouble. trying to connect those if they aren't connected will just feel like a shoddy attempt at control.

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    I recognize this Fi authenticity and honesty. I also find it very appealing.

    I think the Fe users see it differently-I have had many entps really be distrustful of heavy Fi users. They say it feels very fake, yet dissolve under heavy Fe usage that honestly sickens me. Heavy Fe feels fake and overly sugar coated to me. Yet logically I understand it is real, and the Fe user means well, so I sort of have to work my way around the weird-icky feeling I get with it.

    Try giving an ENTP the full-on Fi google sweet stare. They think you just received a head injury. They will actually ask "Are you okay?" Its quite funny.
    That full-on Fi google sweet stare is dangerous for me Have resorted to Fe shadow because of it, not that I think its wrong, but I couldnt handle what it did to me internally. Have another Fi user that gives me glimpses of Fi stares and the situations make it nerve racking for me. Its like your husband is here, stop looking at me like that Working on getting used to Fi intensity. I can easily handle the Fi excitment, etc, but the looks I am having to work on how to respond. The sweet Fi look though causes me to melt and is the hardest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    mmmm...I asked my entp how she used Ne with her INTJ boss and his Se.

    She said the trick was in the data... For him the data was the concrete Se result. She would identify patterns, do a bit of pre-work to identify the Ne pattern (ie generate data when he wasnt looking), then sit and draw the lines connecting the concrete data to places where she saw the Ne patterns. This could take some back and forth-but he could not deny the concrete results in front of him, thus it legitimized the Ne perception.

    ah, you speak words of wisdom state!
    This is how me and my INTJ dad work. I am generally the one to run through google or take on huge amounts of different perceptions as I can process what I see much faster in regards to what to pay attention to and what to discard, he has to more create a plan for all the different things his perception brings in.
    Im out, its been fun

  7. #227
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    I've a slightly different interpretation of how N works. It does not seem to me that N is two different entities, Ne and Ni, but just N. The e/i is invoked based on whether the judging function is introverted or extroverted in attitude. I believe this in large part because even though I'm INTJ with very strong Ni and Te, my Fi is not weak, and when I use it, it invokes Ne (which is technically a shadow function), not Se. (It -can- and does work with my Se, but usually it's with Ne.)

    So, the way to resolve the Ni/Ne "conflict" is really to resolve the Te/Fi conflict (which exists not only between the two individuals, but within each, as well). I can totally identify with ENFP and INFP feelings, and I think they sense that from me, but the conflict comes in because my Ni/Te will hop in and say, "You don't wanna do that. That would be really stupid." The (confirmation biased) experience of most INTJs is that Ni/Te logic is almost always right, and what we feel like doing is not something that we really want to do. The wise restraint of Ni Te overcomes the bold passion of Ne Fi.

    Interestingly, this is what attracts ENFPs and INTJs together (and to a lesser degree, xNFPs and xNTJs in general). [Assuming male INTJ and female ENFP for pronoun and gender convenience.] The INTJ sees a beautiful and vibrant ENFP bringing an energy into his life that he enjoys: he has that same approach, inside, and it is this inner self that is joyously awakened by the ENFP. The ENFP, on the other hand, isn't attracted to the INTJ "logic" but rather the apparent imperturbability. She can emote and emote, and he'll just sit there, quietly enjoying the show. She can be herself, and he doesn't freak out: "Wow, he accepts me just as I am!" she thinks.

    In other words, it is precisely the source of the attraction that becomes the source of the conflict. Ne Fi will always push for something more, and Ni Te will always restrain. It's a natural duality. They will always "conflict", but likewise, they need each other, because either extreme is bad. The trick is finding the equilibrium that allows both to be fully expressed.

    Eventually, the combination will fail, if both people don't grow up a bit. (Which isn't saying much, really: immaturity will kill most relationships, regardless of the MBTI types involved.) In this case, the INTJ needs to learn for himself when more emotional spontaneity is appropriate, and the ENFP needs to learn when more careful planning is merited. And it isn't just about developing those weaker functions, it's about learning to accept and respect each other as is. The ENFP should allow the INTJ to be INTJ, most of the time, and the INTJ should similarly be careful not to unreasonably restrain the ENFP's natural enthusiasm.

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I've a slightly different interpretation of how N works. It does not seem to me that N is two different entities, Ne and Ni, but just N. The e/i is invoked based on whether the judging function is introverted or extroverted in attitude. I believe this in large part because even though I'm INTJ with very strong Ni and Te, my Fi is not weak, and when I use it, it invokes Ne (which is technically a shadow function), not Se. (It -can- and does work with my Se, but usually it's with Ne.)

    So, the way to resolve the Ni/Ne "conflict" is really to resolve the Te/Fi conflict (which exists not only between the two individuals, but within each, as well). I can totally identify with ENFP and INFP feelings, and I think they sense that from me, but the conflict comes in because my Ni/Te will hop in and say, "You don't wanna do that. That would be really stupid." The (confirmation biased) experience of most INTJs is that Ni/Te logic is almost always right, and what we feel like doing is not something that we really want to do. The wise restraint of Ni Te overcomes the bold passion of Ne Fi.

    Interestingly, this is what attracts ENFPs and INTJs together (and to a lesser degree, xNFPs and xNTJs in general). [Assuming male INTJ and female ENFP for pronoun and gender convenience.] The INTJ sees a beautiful and vibrant ENFP bringing an energy into his life that he enjoys: he has that same approach, inside, and it is this inner self that is joyously awakened by the ENFP. The ENFP, on the other hand, isn't attracted to the INTJ "logic" but rather the apparent imperturbability. She can emote and emote, and he'll just sit there, quietly enjoying the show. She can be herself, and he doesn't freak out: "Wow, he accepts me just as I am!" she thinks.

    In other words, it is precisely the source of the attraction that becomes the source of the conflict. Ne Fi will always push for something more, and Ni Te will always restrain. It's a natural duality. They will always "conflict", but likewise, they need each other, because either extreme is bad. The trick is finding the equilibrium that allows both to be fully expressed.

    Eventually, the combination will fail, if both people don't grow up a bit. (Which isn't saying much, really: immaturity will kill most relationships, regardless of the MBTI types involved.) In this case, the INTJ needs to learn for himself when more emotional spontaneity is appropriate, and the ENFP needs to learn when more careful planning is merited. And it isn't just about developing those weaker functions, it's about learning to accept and respect each other as is. The ENFP should allow the INTJ to be INTJ, most of the time, and the INTJ should similarly be careful not to unreasonably restrain the ENFP's natural enthusiasm.
    What happens in the long run is that the NTJ stops listening to the NFP emoting and the emoting has to become stronger and stronger, hence my comment the other day to my mom "damn, that sounded like a man" as she yelled at my dad trying to get him to listen, and the NFP does things on her own because the NTJ is to restrictive and the NFP has a need to become more and more self-sustaining in this world.

    So this is an area that NFPs and NTJs NEED to make sure they dont fall into and need to heavily watch. There is no truth as to whether it will work or wont work, you just have to pay attention to what areas you need to watch out for.
    Im out, its been fun

  9. #229
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    So, the way to resolve the Ni/Ne "conflict" is really to resolve the Te/Fi conflict (which exists not only between the two individuals, but within each, as well). I can totally identify with ENFP and INFP feelings, and I think they sense that from me, but the conflict comes in because my Ni/Te will hop in and say, "You don't wanna do that. That would be really stupid." The (confirmation biased) experience of most INTJs is that Ni/Te logic is almost always right, and what we feel like doing is not something that we really want to do. The wise restraint of Ni Te overcomes the bold passion of Ne Fi.

    Interestingly, this is what attracts ENFPs and INTJs together (and to a lesser degree, xNFPs and xNTJs in general). [Assuming male INTJ and female ENFP for pronoun and gender convenience.] The INTJ sees a beautiful and vibrant ENFP bringing an energy into his life that he enjoys: he has that same approach, inside, and it is this inner self that is joyously awakened by the ENFP. The ENFP, on the other hand, isn't attracted to the INTJ "logic" but rather the apparent imperturbability. She can emote and emote, and he'll just sit there, quietly enjoying the show. She can be herself, and he doesn't freak out: "Wow, he accepts me just as I am!" she thinks.

    In other words, it is precisely the source of the attraction that becomes the source of the conflict. Ne Fi will always push for something more, and Ni Te will always restrain. It's a natural duality. They will always "conflict", but likewise, they need each other, because either extreme is bad. The trick is finding the equilibrium that allows both to be fully expressed.

    Eventually, the combination will fail, if both people don't grow up a bit. (Which isn't saying much, really: immaturity will kill most relationships, regardless of the MBTI types involved.) In this case, the INTJ needs to learn for himself when more emotional spontaneity is appropriate, and the ENFP needs to learn when more careful planning is merited. And it isn't just about developing those weaker functions, it's about learning to accept and respect each other as is. The ENFP should allow the INTJ to be INTJ, most of the time, and the INTJ should similarly be careful not to unreasonably restrain the ENFP's natural enthusiasm.
    GREAT, FANFUCKINTASTIC POST TO WAKE UP TO, THANK YOU!!!



    Senor Kalach, please read these wise man's words and take notes!

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  10. #230
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    http://www.personalitypage.com/INTJ_rel.html

    Although two well-developed individuals of any type can enjoy a healthy relationship, the INTJ's natural partner is the ENFP, or the ENTP.
    Grrrrr, YES, with ANY pairing there will be there fair share of potential problems that may or may not be surmountable, but if there are enough qualities and characteristics, and circumstances present that make the relationship WORTHY of WORK, then any person with at least two neurons firing in their head should do their part to make what can blossom into a meaningful relationship, do just that, blossom.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

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