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  1. #181
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    For a bunch of possibility seekers, you guys are sure sticking to what you know.

    As much as Ne loves Ni, Si rejects it unless there's a reasonable foundation: "That doesn't feel like something I remember, how can that be possible if it doesn't feel right?"

    The inferior function is explicitly rejected by the dominant. That's how the dominant is dominant. And dual seeking behaviour is real, people sometimes even explicitly ask others to do what their tertiary and inferior functions can't be relied on for. Ni runs a real risk of being viewed as faulty Si and rejected. This would take the form of suggestions that, perhaps, just sayin', and don't be offended but, maybe the Ni user has not looked at all the possibilities <rising tone indicating inoffensive question>. And this would be difficult to distinguish from those times when the ENFP is right and indeed the INTJ has not looked at all the possibilities.

    The corresponding INTJ road block has it that as much as Ni is impressed by Ne, Se rejects it if doesn't involve movement in the world: "That's just annoying, the only real possibility is where you do this, this and this.
    I speak again:

    In both of these cases--where the Ne user rejects Ni originated ideas because they lack recognisable foundation, and where the Ni user rejects Ne options because they lack (or contradict chosen) immediate physical application--there is in the user the struggle between the dominant and the rejected inferior. Either the dominant wins out and allows the new possibility and the inferior is (obscurely) educated, or the inferior, being its reactive, barely conscious self, pokes the tertiary and the dominant clutches its skirts around its knees and sticks with the familiar.

    This is an impressive and fundamental struggle. Trust and love built around, at least, the auxiliary/tertiary exchanges supports it. The inferior is allowed to relax its deathgrip on what can happen.


    Now, what of that *(obscure)* education the inferior gets? The inferior does NOT learn anything about possibilities. It's not a possibilities function. And it's not really the inferior that is educated, is it?




    (See, you saps. All of this has been about finding the way forward.)
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  2. #182
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    i don't have this experience above with dominant Ne types. there may be an underlying thread of traditionalism or two that sneaks its way around within the enp interior, but i think this is more about Fi than Si (i don't see it with entps). the biggest ramification of inferior Si in my experience with enps is that they don't remember if they've already said something about something yesterday or if i did or pretty much any previous detail at all. i don't find them error-checking what i say in nearly as strenuous a way apart from when really focused on Ti or Fi, Ne generally gives the benefit of the doubt not to the quality of your idea but more to the range of possibility that branches off of it. can you move forward or can you not? etc.

    the only real complaint would be the total imbalance of past Ni vs future Ne possibility when estimating values. but this helps too, when the present draws both into better focus together. with strong secondary development there's a real sense of freedom for both parties to be themselves as freely as they can ever be.

  3. #183
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    [...] past Ni vs future Ne possibility [...]
    All right, that does it! I'm getting out my Jung and seeing where you get this claim from. It's a feature of both Ni and Ne that they seek to escape the known, so "past Ni" sounds like contradiction.

    For God's sake, man! We chart courses! That means, into unknown regions. Other people didn't know the path could be made.


    The NPs have been messing with your head.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  4. #184
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    What's buggin you, Kalach? Been hurt by an ENFP?

  5. #185
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    (Hmmmm, I wonder if I'm about to prove State right...)

    The true origin of this interest in inferior functions comes from interactions with ENXJs. I know what can happen in their company. (Or, to please State, I discovered what happens in their company.)


    Way to win with the conservative guess there, E.



    Now, either I'm right about these things, and this thread is a gigantic demonstration of the theory, conservative possibility engineering decrying such a weird and perverse possibility, or I'm wrong and it's so adorable this worrying at some perverse theory like a dog with a bone. Soooo.... interesting choice: observe that it's better to be conservative about truth and we can all step back and let the ENPs be the engineers of the future, or... try seeing if this outlandish bunch of ideas is true.

    Yeah, the world has worked a wonderful turn of events when it's the INTJ getting stuff started and the ENFPs being conservators.

    Who, in this story, decides truth?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  6. #186
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Truth? About if a type combo is a disasterous combo? Surely you see that as a subjective idea. How could it hold 'truth' across the board at all?

    It's not like the OP was balanced at all anyway.

  7. #187
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    my entp friend and i have the most balanced process we could possibly have, i think. the interaction styles, in this case, really make sense (chart-the-course + get-things-going). i feel like the thinking process really takes advantage of all of our cognitive functions simultaneously. it's a silly phrase but the enps i know know trust that i have my eye on the prize in a way that they do not. the focus, concentration, depth of vision, gravity, discrimination (not in the bad way), etc. i recognize what is really there beyond talk and human busywork. the psyche, life, the universe, human history, religious life, finding purpose, art, societal needs, etc.

    you both want to communicate bc you both recognize your visions are bigger than those of others, and so you have more to learn from each other.

  8. #188
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    I cant help but notice that the "INFJ/ENTP hands down the best combo" and the "ENFP + INTJ=disaster" thread both have the same number of posts-186.

    There is some sort of hysterical irony in having these two threads side by side. I dunno...

    It's like the ultimate in "away from pain" vs "towards pleasure" thinking that my entp makes fun of Te/Fi users for. The FeTi's are all falling in love and we FiTe's are down here finding flaws and disaster, before we are okay with falling in love.

    yeah, we are up to 187!!! we're winning thanks to special K!!

  9. #189
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    I cant help but notice that the "INFJ/ENTP hands down the best combo" and the "ENFP + INTJ=disaster" thread both have the same number of posts-186.

    There is some sort of hysterical irony in having these two threads side by side. I dunno...

    It's like the ultimate in "away from pain" vs "towards pleasure" thinking that my entp makes fun of Te/Fi users for. The FeTi's are all falling in love and we FiTe's are down here finding flaws and disaster, before we are okay with falling in love.

    yeah, we are up to 187!!! we're winning thanks to special K!!



    I know, but ENTP/INFJ sounds like a more balanced combination than a ENFP/INTJ to me.

  10. #190
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    What's buggin you, Kalach? Been hurt by an ENFP?
    I surmise the "issue" with Kalach is that he is all theory, and no, or incredibly little, experience.

    Granted, his theoretical perspectives are often accurate, or insightful, at the very least, but without applying these theories, or weighing them against actual experience, well... they fall flat, and short.

    Sorry, Kalach, I still have love for you, homie.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

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