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  1. #131
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Had an unruly thought, possibly not true:

    Ni/Fi is an identity. The contents of Ni--naturally viewed as objects, because Te gives such a worldview, and also naturally viewed at arm's length because Te aims for "objective--are nonetheless identifiable with the user, to a greater or lesser degree depending on Fi investment. Screw with the ideas and you screw with the person.

    And there's another thing: Te is almost always about things to do. Being as it takes the outside world for granted, it moves from observed conditions to statements of natural order, like "Well, that means this thing is wrong and that object is out of place and this process is flawed and it can all be fixed by XYZ."

    What then? A person who sometimes identifies with solutions to problems and has a low powered attachment to actually taking part in the world, so.... something.

    In any case, does anyone know this stuff from the ENFP side? Se anxiety is real in INTJs, and their character forces them eventually to find ways to cope. It all gets solved in the end, anxiety or no. What about the ENFP experience? What is Si anxiety?

    Si Anxiety. Not that nothing will succeed but that nothing can be done? There will always be no way to know for sure what's right?

    I have no idea.




    ps. inferior Si is in your life from the git go influencing your choices and approaches. There is no ENFP that has no Si. There are plenty of ENFPs who haven't consciously spelt out its influence.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  2. #132
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Had an unruly thought, possibly not true:

    Ni/Fi is an identity. The contents of Ni--naturally viewed as objects, because Te gives such a worldview, and also naturally viewed at arm's length because Te aims for "objective--are nonetheless identifiable with the user, to a greater or lesser degree depending on Fi investment. Screw with the ideas and you screw with the person.
    I have wondered this. It seems each type has a weakness, a soft spot. For an NeFi it is external affirmation that our feels are okay and are wanted. Same thing for the ideas of NeTi.

    So then I thought what are INFJs sensitive to? Not Fe-that's the tool...So I thought maybe Ni? So for you it would be Ni and Fi?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    And there's another thing: Te is almost always about things to do. Being as it takes the outside world for granted, it moves from observed conditions to statements of natural order, like "Well, that means this thing is wrong and that object is out of place and this process is flawed and it can all be fixed by XYZ."

    In any case, does anyone know this stuff from the ENFP side? Se anxiety is real in INTJs, and their character forces them eventually to find ways to cope. It all gets solved in the end, anxiety or no. What about the ENFP experience? What is Si anxiety?

    Si Anxiety. Not that nothing will succeed but that nothing can be done? There will always be no way to know for sure what's right?
    In an ISTJ, I see them get caught in Si-Fi loops. The are afraid to change and can only see the pain points of change. However they dont have a function that allows then to see a way out-see a path through the potholes so to speak. They have to trust those who have made the choice to change-the leaders-that the pain points will have been watched and avoided.

    Now if you fuck em over two or three times, they lose trust. Then you cant get them to change at all. They build walls-ie systems to protect themselves from painful change.

    However this is where I help-I can feel the Fi-Si pain points, but I can find an Ne path through them. Also they trust me-Te oibligations and all of that.

    For enfps-I dunno. What do the entps do? The only time I sense Te-Fi-Si working together is when I have planned a series of events, and then I get totally sideswiped by a massive change, which was poorly made. Or I have an understanding of why certain Si rules are very important-FDA design controls-and I will balk very strongly at shifting out of my chosen path to follow them.

    But in my personal life? eh, are you sure this fourth function effect isnt greater for you guys since it is extroverted?

  3. #133
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    But in my personal life? eh, are you sure this fourth function effect isnt greater for you guys since it is extroverted?
    You don't experience Fi-Si loops?

    I'm pretty sure I do... a lot.

    When a strong feeling resonates within and throughout me, I am transported via my Si to the other times in my life when I felt the same way, the feelings itself do not change, even though the circumstances surrounding them might, but I use, I dunno, I guess both my Ne + Te to compare any similar triggers I might find to answer what makes me feel this way and why.

    `
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  4. #134
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post



    ps. inferior Si is in your life from the git go influencing your choices and approaches. There is no ENFP that has no Si. There are plenty of ENFPs who haven't consciously spelt out its influence.
    yeah...yeah...i know you're right but i laugh at myself about it because a function test said i used like .1 % or something....and my memory is really bad....but yeah i'm sure everyone does in a way.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
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  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    You don't experience Fi-Si loops?

    I'm pretty sure I do... a lot.

    When a strong feeling resonates within and throughout me, I am transported via my Si to the other times in my life when I felt the same way, the feeling itself doesn't change, even though the circumstances surrounding them might, but I use, I dunno, I guess both my Ne + Te to compare any similar triggers I might find to answer what makes me feel this way and why.

    I have Fi-Si loops - and I can become weirdly nostalgic and withdrawn. Weirdly enough, it's not always unpleasant feelings that trigger it though.

    Fi-Si loop = emo me

    Ne-Te loop = SCARY me (I've had people tell me I'm possessed by the spirit of my deceased ISTJ father when I act like this ..."arrgh! what's going on here? nobody is in control! I have to take control! Someone has to be! things must be done!" *cue steamroller*...this is often a response to fear, chaotic situations, or if I get depressed so I don't just lay down and give up)

    Someone once said to me that our MBTI type is where we feel the best - and yeah, I think I feel the best when I'm Ne/Fi and not stuck in one of those loops.

    They serve their purpose, though, occasionally.

  6. #136
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    ^^ you know not quite like what you are saying. I understand the idea, but I so quickly over ride emo with Te analysis to logically distance myself from the Fi feeling, that I dont seem to get stuck in the past. This could be a weak Si though. I dont carry emo memories of the past with me in any great detail.

    This could be a defensive measure as my past was bumpy at times. I see it though Te. The only time I feel the past is if I write about a painful event which makes me re-feel it. That can be horrible depending upon the event.

    Worse maybe would be the Ne-Fi loops where I get hurt, then dart down the enfp paranoia road of everyone hating me. Te has to work for a few hours to break that cycle.

  7. #137
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I have Fi-Si loops - and I can become weirdly nostalgic and withdrawn. Weirdly enough, it's not always unpleasant feelings that trigger it though.

    Fi-Si loop = emo me

    Ne-Te loop = SCARY me (I've had people tell me I'm possessed by the spirit of my deceased ISTJ father when I act like this ..."arrgh! what's going on here? nobody is in control! I have to take control! Someone has to be! things must be done!" *cue steamroller*...this is often a response to fear, chaotic situations, or if I get depressed so I don't just lay down and give up)

    Someone once said to me that our MBTI type is where we feel the best - and yeah, I think I feel the best when I'm Ne/Fi and not stuck in one of those loops.

    They serve their purpose, though, occasionally.
    interesting...i think i do experience that too.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
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  8. #138
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I have Fi-Si loops - and I can become weirdly nostalgic and withdrawn. Weirdly enough, it's not always unpleasant feelings that trigger it though.

    Fi-Si loop = emo me
    When hit with a massive emo blow I will revert to a shadow INFJ state-I totally withdraw and feel no emo pain and am content to be totally alone for a day or so.

  9. #139
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Hmm, it's hard for me to gauge what I do more, fantasize about the future/hypothesize about ifs, or analyze myself and life as products of the past.

    Regarding people, especially, I use the storehouse of information provided by my past collection of experiences to ascertain why people are acting the way they are, asking myself, "where have I seen this before, I know this tension, I know that sigh," and within milliseconds the present moment becomes a mere iteration of the past, another manifestation of a "life-byte".

    Also, like m.sunrise, I am one ridiculously nostalgic mofo!!!

    I love remembering and honoring the beautiful things, both painful and joyful, that I've been blessed to experience in my life.

    I dunno, I just can't help myself.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

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    Intelligentle sparkles

  10. #140
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    When hit with a massive emo blow I will revert to a shadow INFJ state-I totally withdraw and feel no emo pain and am content to be totally alone for a day or so.
    Question,

    Do you gals experience happy emo-ness as well, don't get me wrong, I have my dark, stay-the-fuck-away-from-me-as-I-drown-in-the-void kind of emo, but I also get in these dare I say, manic, life is so fucking rad, and beautiful and awe-inspiring moods where nothing can get me down because life is too special to sweat the small stuff, and everything makes sense, and I just want to dance with the harmony until daddy takes the t-bird awaaaaay!

    kk, I'm done.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

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