On a somewhat related point:: It reminds me of an interesting lecture by Prof. Lewin at MIT regarding the difference between looking at a rainbow versus seeing it, by using the knowledge of the underlying physics that we learn. For me, though, I do tend to analyse the heck out of many things, so when it comes to people, I unfortunately find it hard to relate to them. Relationship-wise...I don't know, yet But I tentatively agree with the above analysis
Even when we have lost hope in resolving the problems we have, we are still fundamentally part and parcel of the world. By virtue of this understanding, we can do anything realisable within the universe. [So don't give up ]
If you don't like the way this universe is - go somewhere else!" - Richard Feynman
oh wow i am only on page 12 and this thread is amazing
Originally Posted by Kalach
And ps, just by the bye:
Just the same, every so often, [ENFPs will go on a] self-righteous, self-improvement mission of some kind (e.g. anti-media diets, so he can't come to our superbowl party that he'd already committed to, or a meaningless regiment to start getting up at 8 in the morning, when he's got a part time job that start at 12:30 in the afternoon, so he can't hang out past 9pm, stuff like that) and blows off all of his friends and family, attempting to try out a new technique for operating in life. Our friends typically respect him enough to let him do it without saying much, but the issue is, whenever he ventures forth on such a mission, all of his prior committments go out the window, and according to the mission he's on, certain people who, by being around them, would counteract his attempts at this new discipline, will cut them out for the duration, until the "lifestyle fad" has played out, and he's tired of committing himself to meaningless disciplines.
The difference being an ENFP'll be really, really sorry they forgot about what you'd planned.
well and it's perfect for us because the ENFP feels kind of bad about doing that and the INTJ is like fuck it, you know what's important
Originally Posted by Kalach
Personal favourite claim in front of ENFPs: "I know everything."
ENFP: "No, you don't, how can you know everything?"
INTJ: "I don't know it all right now, but I know everything."
ENFP: 'That's adorable."
kalach you are a genius it's all so true
Originally Posted by Wiley45
male ENFP's seem to be less kooky.
(alternate response 1: unfortunate, isn't it?)
(alternate response 2: what the hell kind of male ENFPs have you been hanging out with, and are you sure they're ENFP? or male?)
Originally Posted by boondocked
If I had a cupcake for every person who's given me a sheepish smile and said "I have no idea why I'm telling you this, but..." I'd be a very happy 300 lb. woman.
QFT QFT QFT
Originally Posted by SillySapienne
1.) Any, or at least most romantic relationships require both parties to exercise a buttload of patience, period.
2.) ENFPs do not want to be everybody's best friend, rather, we enjoy truly connecting with others, strangers and lovers alike, and it is this spontaneous yet continuous connection, free of any pretense or pretext, for which we strive.
3.) The mere thought of dragging anyone to any event against their will or wishes leaves a bitter taste in my soul.
4.) We are fine going to parties and these "social scenes" (wait, what the fuck is a social scene, and do we really take part in these things?!?), ALONE, or with a person who actually wants to go.
5.) In general, I think you will find that most, or at least many ENFPs, are actually quite comfortable being alone, or in the company of +1, (in fact, many of us have expressed our preference of one-on-one contact/communication).
6.) As popular, and people-loving we might be, we are not these social butterflies that flit and flutter here, there, and everywhere, at least not usually. :P
Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest
INFP might feel like incest
lmao, it's true. toooo similar sometimes. not enough mystery
Originally Posted by evilrobot
Put simply, INTJs are out of their depth with ENFPs.
it's ok, we're out of our depth with you too, just on a totally different axis
Originally Posted by boondocked
The greatest thing about an INTJ in love is that he's decided on you. He wouldn't love you if he hadn't decided that you're the one he wants. Once that decision is made, it's damn near irrevocable.
yes. ENFPs are good at empowering others, because we believe in them, but it's hard when it comes to ourselves sometimes. a love like that? it's safe, it's anchoring, stable, protective, confining scary inescapable wonderful heady damn intoxicating love. being pinpointed like that is the most simultaneously amazing and terrifying thing in the world.
I know that the INTJ is the suggested "natural partner" for the ENFP, but I can't stand EVERY INTJ I have ever met. I realize that's a hugely mean thing to say (I'm sorry!), but I have yet to be introduced to an INTJ that I liked.
They are vindictive, cold, insensitive, and mooch without so much as a thanks. I know this most likely isn't true for all INTJ's, but what could be the reason behind these particularly annoying INTJs?
I personally am drawn more towards the INFJ (Albeit, in a much more family-oriented way. My almost-brother friend and my father <3). They tend to be more sensitive and understanding toward the ENFP's natural drama, but also need us to coddle them a little and coax them out of their natural moody shell. Definitely one of my favorite types.
What are your experiences with the INTJ and/or the INFJ, my fellow ENFPs?
actually, I've seen several ENFP/INTJ relationships in real life that worked beautifully. INTJs really aren't as cold and vindictive as people make them out to be (but you probably know this). I like INFPs for the same reason you like INFJs (surprisingly, I just don't get along with INFJs, or most FJs at all for that matter. my dad is an INFJ too and he gets on my friggin nerves). INFPs are like a whole other world in and of themselves. all one has to do is knock gently and ask "can I come in?" and then they'll usually let you. ENFPs are the same except with a big sign hanging from our psyche saying "welcome! Come In! Eat, Drink and be Merry!"
I've had two serious relationships with the supposed "natural partner" for ENFP
INFJ: 4 years... INTENSE PASSIONATE VERY GOOD EMOTIONAL UNDERSTANDING SIMILAR LIFE GOALS etc. I do believe that the INFJ is a better natural match for ENFP's.. I have never felt so loved in a relationship as this one. My INFJ would have pushed me out of the way and let a car hit him, and I'm not exaggerating here. He would have done ANYTHING for me.. and when it came to breaking up.. (which was on my terms) I felt like a part of myself died, literally! Like I had lost a leg, but it wasn't a leg.. it was a huge part of my heart and soul. (FTR- we broke up because he had 5 years on me, I was very young.. and I didn't realize at that point that I wanted the same thing in life as him, marriage, children, and that kind of committment. It took me about another 5 years to realize who I was, what I wanted, and by then we were long done.)
INTJ - 1 yr (okay so not THAT long) There is a magneticsm between ENFP/INTJ. I read somewhere that when a species is looking to mate, it will biologically be drawn to it's opposite of gene makeup to strengthen offspring on an evolutionary scale. THe two parts create a whole. I see INTJ's in this light. Complete opposite except the N (communication) factor. My INTJ was strong in every way that I was weak. He balanced me losing myself in the external world, and helped me introspect, look with in. He aided me in balancing my passionate ideals, and to decipher what would and would not work. He brought me down from the clouds. All the great social activities and events, he helped me organize them. He helped me follow through on commitments. He gave me direction. In return, I brought him out of his head, into the external. I integrated a more emotional element to his logic. I made him laugh, cry, be silly, lose control, feel more connected to community, friends, family... ultimately helped him embrace his "human-ness." I showed him how to be more laid back, let things slide, realize whats important and whats not. I would say that INTJ is probably #2 best match for ENFP, or close to it.
THe thing about the NT/NF is the "death spiral."
There is alot of potential for shit to go bad with your opposite. I personally think the biggest struggle is the T/F preference, and if you've got a strong T and a strong F.. it can be really hard to overcome unless both are pretty mature. Even then.
My INTJ was really really T. At the time I was really F. (I've balanced it out since I've gotten older, probably working a bit on that Te now) It made for some CRAZY disagreements to put it mildly. And that was one thing my INTJ did not tolerate well.. emotional craziness, the need for validation, and toward the end I really think he thought he was smarter than me. Which is garbage.. ya he was smarter at logic and computers etc.. but I could mop the floor with him on social interaction, feelings, peoples motivations etc. I also think ENFP's are better in bed than the INTJ *generally* haha. See, you INTJ's might THINK your god..but us ENFP's are the real God in bed =P hahaha.
Conclusion... if your life is to create a loving, wonderful family, to have children, LOVE LOVE LOVE, INFJ is by far the better match.
If your goal is world domination, to better understand yourself, to achieve academically or professionally, INTJ might be the better match. (THough I do think INFJ's can really push you as well.)
Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts
Dear Huxley3112, that is possibly the best post I've ever read here. Best as in, it puts my experiences into words best.
INTJ+ENFP is complete magnet attraction, but I've come to be very wary of them because, beware the death spiral. You put it so well. I can totally see how an INTJ is the best mate if an ENFP wants to accomplish things in the world. But if you differ on something important, the INTJ is going to think he's objectively right, and the ENFP is going to think she is the only one in the outfit with a heart or a value system. So if you want to be with an INTJ, you first have find one that genuinely, objectively, shares your values. I have been so attracted to so many INTJs but I've avoided them because I smelled poison. I haven't read the whole thread so I won't elaborate on this too much as I'm sure you guys have covered it.
Right now I'm dating an INFJ and your description of warm intimate love love love and family is absolutely accurate. I have never felt so un-lonely in my life. Fortunately he does actually help me understand myself a lot better - and no-one has ever taken the time to sit down with me and talk through the blurry things in my heart and encourage me the way he does. Not much sexual attraction initially, in fact we were friends for years while I dated other people, thinking my INFJ was just a wonderful friend. But the attraction is growing, and I think that will come in time We would both like to marry as virgins (someday, each other or whoever else) so maybe I can't comment on sex. BUT the sexual atraction to INTJs was absolutely primordial. Even with the horrible immature ones who would be no good for me. Which is another reason I was concerned I'd "lose my head" with an INTJ and become someone I don't want to be.
My main concern with my INFJ is that he is SO focused on loving and nurturing and being a family that we will step out there into the world and accomplish something for society on a broader level. Or, and this is scary, that I will do it alone and he will be on the sidelines, vaguely cheering me on but wishing I could just come back and spend time with our closest family and friends. I will be a lonely go-getter, coming home to tell the stories.
I'm sorry that you missed out on marrying that INFJ. I wish you an amazing relationship with a new person.
Interestingly, this is what attracts ENFPs and INTJs together (and to a lesser degree, xNFPs and xNTJs in general). [Assuming male INTJ and female ENFP for pronoun and gender convenience.] The INTJ sees a beautiful and vibrant ENFP bringing an energy into his life that he enjoys: he has that same approach, inside, and it is this inner self that is joyously awakened by the ENFP. The ENFP, on the other hand, isn't attracted to the INTJ "logic" but rather the apparent imperturbability. She can emote and emote, and he'll just sit there, quietly enjoying the show. She can be herself, and he doesn't freak out: "Wow, he accepts me just as I am!" she thinks.
In other words, it is precisely the source of the attraction that becomes the source of the conflict. Ne Fi will always push for something more, and Ni Te will always restrain. It's a natural duality. They will always "conflict", but likewise, they need each other, because either extreme is bad. The trick is finding the equilibrium that allows both to be fully expressed.
Eventually, the combination will fail, if both people don't grow up a bit. (Which isn't saying much, really: immaturity will kill most relationships, regardless of the MBTI types involved.) In this case, the INTJ needs to learn for himself when more emotional spontaneity is appropriate, and the ENFP needs to learn when more careful planning is merited. And it isn't just about developing those weaker functions, it's about learning to accept and respect each other as is. The ENFP should allow the INTJ to be INTJ, most of the time, and the INTJ should similarly be careful not to unreasonably restrain the ENFP's natural enthusiasm.
He does accept me just as I am. I love you my beautiful ummy.